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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2

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catcherintherye said:
I actually thought they could do it against Madrid. It is a tiring older Real Madrid side that I sense falls off a cliff some time soon. They were 17 points off Barca this season and below city rivals in the league. Lots of players over 30 and beginning to resemble some of the great Italian teams at the turn of the last century, who fell away for a time as they were just a bit too old.

They have had a particularly easy run, but the first time they faced a decent European team they fell apart. I know City won the league, but to me they have very little pedigree in Europe and have a inferiority complex with Liverpool. So I discount them. Other than that, they got two sides in the knockout competition who are a million miles away from being the top 8 in Europe, and there is a debate about whether they are in the top 16. Against Roma they nearly messed it up, and with 10 minutes longer I sense would have done, in spite of a bang average team playing into their hands for 60 minutes and giving them a 5 goal start. They remain a complete liability at the back .

The best teams in the European cup are, Real Madrid, Barca, PSG, Juventus & Bayern Munich. That they avoided any of those 5 in any of the games until the final is telling. In a normal season, with a normal group, they likely finish 2nd or worse and get one of the 5 in the 1st Knockout round to be eliminated. Fortune worked on them this time, and avoided a top side until the final.

The 2nd layer of teams, notably United & Spurs they avoided too, who again would likely have knocked them out in Europe. Over two legs you'd have probably fancied Sevilla too. So you are looking at 8/9 teams they avoided. As I say, good fortune but unlikely to repeat itself.

I think the departure of his assistant is a massive moment for Klopp too. He is very much the front man, the fluffer of the operation. Very charming and effervescent with the media and players but the core aspects of his system were thought through by Buvac. It's no surprise they have already taken a big dip since the fall out. If he leaves that will continue. We had something similar with Joe Royle and Willie Donaughie back in the day, Donaughie did most of the prep work on the training ground to implement the system. Clop and Buvac are very close and he will not be able to replace him like for like.

Add in world cup year, where 4 years ago he took a Dortmund side, better than this current Liverpool one in relation to their competitors to bottom of the table approaching Christmas and relegation fodder after Christmas, before essentially doing an Allardyce and lifting them to mid table obscurity.

Though I'm not saying either are a certainty there is a lot of pressure on Klopp now. Lots of players will be arriving back late from a world cup. Salah is likely to be carrying an injury going into the start of next season and will be a marked man. They are hoping they can reproduce the ability to find good players, Fakir looks a decent player but not enough to fill the void. Keita in spite of their build up looks a good player little more, whenever I have watched Leipzig for example, if you'd have said which lad cost 10 million, which one cost 55 with him and Lookman, 90% would have said Lookman was the more expensive.

It could all start to unravel quite quickly for Klopp. There is a clear blueprint to play against them, though sides struggle to enact it when LFC fitness levels are high & they have players bang in form scoring lots of goals. Fitness will be a major issue for all teams next season, particularly ones who rely on high pressing games. Unless Salah, or another has the season of their lives and a major aberration in goal return I can see them being quite badly stuck. They will continue to leak goals at the back, it's not bad luck, they have a massively error prone back 4 and goalkeeper, and Butland will only compound this problem, a goalkeeper who is significantly inferior to Pickford.

They will be like a boxer, who has lost some of its power, gassed a bit and is very easy to counter punch. I expect him to go heavy early, he has to take that risk and hope momentum can pull them through. The usual January decline they have had, I expect to start a lot earlier and last a lot longer (perhaps until the end of the season). I can see the wheels coming off big time, if they are not top by November.

All of this logic will fall upon deaf ears to the largely arrogant and insulated fanbase of LFC who believe they will just keep getting better and better. It will be painful for them. Especially if we get someone like a Silva who emulates the start he had at Watford, we spend wisely on players that deliver.

Or maybe Martinez wins the world cup and returns to finish the job with funding (this is a joke by the way!)
Click to expand...
Normally when I see a wall of text as a 'normal' post within a thread, I'm guilty of skimming through it or even just ignoring it (arsed with all that etc!), but I always make an effort to read your lengthy stuff, always a good read.
 
toffeejack said:
[Poor language removed] off you horrible odious prick. Thick [Poor language removed] can't even spell insect right, why the hell has this vile excuse of a human being not been locked up. Kids died at a concert and he wants to laugh at it, just because his dirty excuse of a club lost a game of football.

Anyone who has twitter please report this numbskull, he shouldn't be given a platform to speak.
Click to expand...
What's the bellend been saying now?
 

Gladystweet said:
What's the bellend been saying now?
Click to expand...

He mocked some guy on Twitter for having a bee as his profile pic which is a symbol used to remember victims of the Manchester Arena Bombing last year. I've no doubt he said it from a place of ignorance rather than malice, but he's too stupid to deserve any kind of leeway.

If the RS are concerned about their image in any way (unlikely) they'd do well to distance themselves from this piss reeking scumbag.
 

catcherintherye said:
I actually thought they could do it against Madrid. It is a tiring older Real Madrid side that I sense falls off a cliff some time soon. They were 17 points off Barca this season and below city rivals in the league. Lots of players over 30 and beginning to resemble some of the great Italian teams at the turn of the last century, who fell away for a time as they were just a bit too old.

They have had a particularly easy run, but the first time they faced a decent European team they fell apart. I know City won the league, but to me they have very little pedigree in Europe and have a inferiority complex with Liverpool. So I discount them. Other than that, they got two sides in the knockout competition who are a million miles away from being the top 8 in Europe, and there is a debate about whether they are in the top 16. Against Roma they nearly messed it up, and with 10 minutes longer I sense would have done, in spite of a bang average team playing into their hands for 60 minutes and giving them a 5 goal start. They remain a complete liability at the back .

The best teams in the European cup are, Real Madrid, Barca, PSG, Juventus & Bayern Munich. That they avoided any of those 5 in any of the games until the final is telling. In a normal season, with a normal group, they likely finish 2nd or worse and get one of the 5 in the 1st Knockout round to be eliminated. Fortune worked on them this time, and avoided a top side until the final.

The 2nd layer of teams, notably United & Spurs they avoided too, who again would likely have knocked them out in Europe. Over two legs you'd have probably fancied Sevilla too. So you are looking at 8/9 teams they avoided. As I say, good fortune but unlikely to repeat itself.

I think the departure of his assistant is a massive moment for Klopp too. He is very much the front man, the fluffer of the operation. Very charming and effervescent with the media and players but the core aspects of his system were thought through by Buvac. It's no surprise they have already taken a big dip since the fall out. If he leaves that will continue. We had something similar with Joe Royle and Willie Donaughie back in the day, Donaughie did most of the prep work on the training ground to implement the system. Clop and Buvac are very close and he will not be able to replace him like for like.

Add in world cup year, where 4 years ago he took a Dortmund side, better than this current Liverpool one in relation to their competitors to bottom of the table approaching Christmas and relegation fodder after Christmas, before essentially doing an Allardyce and lifting them to mid table obscurity.

Though I'm not saying either are a certainty there is a lot of pressure on Klopp now. Lots of players will be arriving back late from a world cup. Salah is likely to be carrying an injury going into the start of next season and will be a marked man. They are hoping they can reproduce the ability to find good players, Fakir looks a decent player but not enough to fill the void. Keita in spite of their build up looks a good player little more, whenever I have watched Leipzig for example, if you'd have said which lad cost 10 million, which one cost 55 with him and Lookman, 90% would have said Lookman was the more expensive.

It could all start to unravel quite quickly for Klopp. There is a clear blueprint to play against them, though sides struggle to enact it when LFC fitness levels are high & they have players bang in form scoring lots of goals. Fitness will be a major issue for all teams next season, particularly ones who rely on high pressing games. Unless Salah, or another has the season of their lives and a major aberration in goal return I can see them being quite badly stuck. They will continue to leak goals at the back, it's not bad luck, they have a massively error prone back 4 and goalkeeper, and Butland will only compound this problem, a goalkeeper who is significantly inferior to Pickford.

They will be like a boxer, who has lost some of its power, gassed a bit and is very easy to counter punch. I expect him to go heavy early, he has to take that risk and hope momentum can pull them through. The usual January decline they have had, I expect to start a lot earlier and last a lot longer (perhaps until the end of the season). I can see the wheels coming off big time, if they are not top by November.

All of this logic will fall upon deaf ears to the largely arrogant and insulated fanbase of LFC who believe they will just keep getting better and better. It will be painful for them. Especially if we get someone like a Silva who emulates the start he had at Watford, we spend wisely on players that deliver.

Or maybe Martinez wins the world cup and returns to finish the job with funding (this is a joke by the way!)
Click to expand...

The basic point for me is this: you just cant play one way and expect to bag a major piece of silverware like the PL or CL. Look at the way City this year were able to mix up their play when they had to; and look at the way Madrid played on Saturday night in just one game where they switched from a solid defence with bodies behind the ball to contain Liverpool early on and then pushed them back and played a possession based game. Liverpool have one gear and they either press and blow teams away early on or they struggle to a hard fought draw/win or else lose those tighter encounters. Klopp has moaned about not having the bench Madrid have. It would make no difference because tactically he's got one string to his bow.

I've said before that Keita looks bang average. In the Bundesliga he might be able carry the ball over distance and prompt attacks, but here in this league he'll be dispossessed before he gets within 30-40 yards of the opposition goal. They spent about £55M on him IIRC. They need an upgrade on Milner and Henderson for sure, but I'm not convinced he's the solution in the engine room.
 
chrissyjack said:
Back in work , tomorrow . Do I give it to the kopites with both barrels , or a restrained effort with just a knowing smile
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You know the answer to that,as you know what they would have been like had they won,now they lost they are going on about other teams fans been happy and its sad this and that,trying to change the subject etc lol i havent stoped and not going to after listerning to them non stop
 
loel.gif


 

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