ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[twoblue]

As SaintDomingo has pointed out what's happened at Liverpool doesn't fit within the norms of football. There have been far better teams the great Arsenal, Chelsea, United and City sides, who haven't done what Liverpool have done. Those teams had quality from front to back Arsenal had Seaman, Adams, Campbell, Viera, Petit, Henry, Pires, Bergkamp and a few others. Chelsea had Cech, Terry, Gallas, Ivanovic, Cole, Ballack, Essien, Lampard, Malouda and Drogba. United had VDS, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Fletcher, Carrick, Scholes, Anderson, Giggs, Ronaldo, Nani, Tevez, Berbatov and Rooney. City had Hart, Kolarov, Kompany, Sagna, Toure, Silva, Dzeko, Nasri, Teves and Aguero.


All the great sides in the PL, the French league, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A have had quality from front to back and on the bench. We struggled to beat United's reserve side in the Semi final in 2008/2009 which shows how good they were, because we were decent then. What's different about this Liverpool side is the great City, Arsenal, Man United, Bayern Juventus, Real Madrid and Barcelona sides relied on quality players cutting through defenses with their passes and crosses. Players like KDB, Modric, Pirlo, Touré, Iniesta, Ribery and Alonso could easily split defenses. Then you look at the wingers those teams had, you have their strikers Henry, Bergkamp, Rooney, Drogba, Messi, Eto, Neymar, Muller and Costa who could create something out of nothing to win a game.

Their success makes sense they were simply great sides, what's strange about Liverpool's success is their success doesn't really make sense. As someone previously pointed out their success in 2013/2014 was focused on their attackers, their defense was useless, that's why they didn't win the league, makes perfect sense. They didn't win the league in 2008/2009 because if teams sat back at Anfield as Stoke, City, Hull, West Ham Fulham and we did they'd struggle to feed Torres through, makes sense.

Chelsea's great sides were built on being able to score then simply defend and catch the opposition on the break, I remember us playing Chelsea at GP, Essien scored in the first half and for the whole 2nd half they just sat back and we couldn't get anywhere near them. We didn't really get close to their goal in the semi final 2nd leg at GP, that's how good their defense was. TAA, VVD and Robertson are not veterans like the defenders in the great teams of the past who have been great for ages, they've seemingly become world class overnight, same with Henderson, Milner, and their front 3. It took Ronaldo a few years to become the great player he became, yet Salah who had hardly any PL experience was able to come in to the premier league and score all those goals. If it was about other teams being poor, the other top 6 teams would be destroying people.

Genuine concerns-
Are Liverpool over represented in the media? Yes. Mainly because when their games are on more people watch them and they are click bait in newspapers for their arm chair fans.
Do liverpool too many pundits on tv? Yep. Definitely.
Do Liverpool get more decisions than they should? Yep - prob cos ref are half worried about any wrong decision being over analyside by their pundit, and the media. And their fans go over the top with death threats and what not.

Tin hat concerns:
Liverpool are drugged up robots - nope. they have an excellent football team, a set style of play and decent manager.

when you mix tin hat theories with genuine concerns in undermines the whole argument.

 

[Penno]

Genuine concerns-
Are Liverpool over represented in the media? Yes. Mainly because when their games are on more people watch them and they are click bait in newspapers for their arm chair fans.
Do liverpool too many pundits on tv? Yep. Definitely.
Do Liverpool get more decisions than they should? Yep - prob cos ref are half worried about any wrong decision being over analyside by their pundit, and the media. And their fans go over the top with death threats and what not.

Tin hat concerns:
Liverpool are drugged up robots - nope. they have an excellent football team, a set style of play and decent manager.

when you mix tin hat theories with genuine concerns in undermines the whole argument.

Are 3 quarters of their squad asthmatic? -Yep

Is this in line with the rest of the population - Nope

 

[PaulPowersTash]

What about drug tests though? The Premier League tests for substances does it not?

Just as cycling tested for substances....

 

[PITA]

Will Liverpool get a bye into next round then?

They’ll probably get the trophy without playing a single game.

 

[number4.]

Their game goes ahead this evening. I mentioned this in the match thread, but really really wondering how Man city managed to adopt a " We'll skip that one thanks" policy for the match at goodison

 

[mahermi1]

Their game goes ahead this evening. I mentioned this in the match thread, but really really wondering how Man city managed to adopt a " We'll skip that one thanks" policy for the match at goodison

Then had to play Chelsea, another big club, ahem, with five players missing, a few days later.... big clubs hmm.

 

[PaddyJames]

Their game goes ahead this evening. I mentioned this in the match thread, but really really wondering how Man city managed to adopt a " We'll skip that one thanks" policy for the match at goodison

I think its because the 4th round is in 2 weeks so the FA can't re-arrange a cup tie. It was either play the kids or forfeit the match. Still, City absolutely used this all to their advantage the other week. They get away with it though. They all do. All about maintaining that status quo.

 

[number4.]

Then had to play Chelsea, another big club, ahem, with five players missing, a few days later.... big clubs hmm.

I'd agree - the gulf in energy between the two teams was clear to see. Any back on topic as the saying goes. C'mon the U23s

 

[catcherintherye]

Their game goes ahead this evening. I mentioned this in the match thread, but really really wondering how Man city managed to adopt a " We'll skip that one thanks" policy for the match at goodison

And lets not forget, Kopite after Kopite lined up to defend City as well. We should never forget their role in this.

 

[brigadier]

Genuine concerns-
Are Liverpool over represented in the media? Yes. Mainly because when their games are on more people watch them and they are click bait in newspapers for their arm chair fans.
Do liverpool too many pundits on tv? Yep. Definitely.
Do Liverpool get more decisions than they should? Yep - prob cos ref are half worried about any wrong decision being over analyside by their pundit, and the media. And their fans go over the top with death threats and what not.

Tin hat concerns:
Liverpool are drugged up robots - nope. they have an excellent football team, a set style of play and decent manager.

when you mix tin hat theories with genuine concerns in undermines the whole argument.

Name me one fitter team than them , head of doping said they dont catch anyone anymore, they store samples in the hope they catch up, in the very few cases that mistimes their doping and gets caught it's down to expensive legal cases which they cant afford, he also said it's not about taking on the cheats its about nike and Adidas looking after their brand , liverpool players dont mind embarrassing themselves in front of everyone cheating on the pitch it's only reasonable to think they are cheating off it.

 

[catcherintherye]

Hard to call - I would have assumed that during the summer and then they got Thiago and Jota.

They are desperate which is obviously the worst place to be in terms of negotiations, so it could be bluff, they are broke or in between and don’t want to over pay their perceived value

If they don’t buy, they have written off the league and are hoping to scrape top 4, which is a crazy game of Russian roulette to play, especially with M’Bappe signed for next season

I know you said when Matip went down they go and sign a CB in early Jan as a result. I stated at the time I didn't think it was so clear cut, but what I didn't say and perhaps should have was that what you said was entirely logical. You go and sign CB given the position they are in, Matip is injury prone. Fabinho gets injuries. Gomes is very injury prone and both he had Van Dijk have long term injuries that you have no idea how they recover from. It's unlikely either are the same player again, and you are dealing with essentially how much of a decline they have. Perhaps time to go and buy a first choice centre back.

2 conclusions come to mind;
1) (As you stated above) they have written this season off.
2) They are skint and can't.

I mean both of the above could also be true.

I'll throw a 3rd in though. In such situations I always try to put myself in the mind of the actors in question, and think "why would they not sign a centre back". I do wonder if FSG, as traders are essentially seeing the end of this "cycle". This is quite common in American sport (with the way their draft systems work), you essentially have spells of investment then spells where you thin 3-4 years down the line and write results off for a period. They have done exactly this with the red sox.

A golden rule for traders is generally don't hedge against the trend line. If the prospects are going down, even from a high base, it's the wrong time to be throwing money in.

I wonder if they sense a rebuild is coming they've had 2 great years, which took them 8 or 9 to build and they are at the point where they will go into a lull again, and have to start another rebuild job? Essentially move on the players from this squad, and go back to buying unusual value and younger players to re-compete again in a few years time?

On paper it's a sensible strategy but football isn't played on paper.

Who knows. But not signing a centre back this season, does seem like a really really odd choice. United are apprently close to Kounde. I'm amazed they haven't looked at him. Apparently looking at Koback, but he has been woeful this season.

 

[PaddyJames]

And lets not forget, Kopite after Kopite lined up to defend City as well. We should never forget their role in this.

Not sure about that? I know a good few and they were all spitting about it. Literally as usual.

 

[catcherintherye]

Not sure about that? I know a good few and they were all spitting about it. Literally as usual.

I saw loads saying Everton were wrong to ask for clarity.

 

[PaddyJames]

I saw loads saying Everton were wrong to ask for clarity.

Saw? Is this on Twitter then? I'm unfortunately in a few mates and a work whats-app group with a load of them and they were all fuming about it. In-fact not a single one I know was anything but annoyed by it thinking City (I agree with them actually) pulled a fast one. I don't see any logic in them thinking anything different. Maybe thats where I'm going wrong.

 

[LEONARD]

Tonight's result.

LFC= 127
Aston Villa (under 12's)=0.

'da greatest team in da world'.