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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

Happy Demba Ba Day

Also Sky have just announced The Sh1te have posted a £46m pre-tax losses compared to last year's £88m, they have losted upward to £120m!

Where's The Mbappe Money?!?
That was only till May last year
So that’s maybe 3 months without fans
This year with no fans and no title will be even worse
Plus Perez is looking for his pound of flesh
They are still as I type members of the ESL
 
Check out the Holgate /Firmino thread... Sound the claxons!
To be perfectly honest, if they are a Liverpool fan, provided they stick to the rules, respect the forum, I don't see much issue especially if they contribute to discussion. What I can't understand, is pretending to not be a Liverpool fan on an Everton forum. Is legitimately weird behavior.
 
To be perfectly honest, if they are a Liverpool fan, provided they stick to the rules, respect the forum, I don't see much issue especially if they contribute to discussion. What I can't understand, is pretending to not be a Liverpool fan on an Everton forum. Is legitimately weird behavior.
Easy bedfellows though, not too surprising really.
 
Oh hello, is this a case of "come in @number4. your time is up"?

Go ahead and have your bullying pile on if you feel you need it. The irony on a forum that brilliantly has a mental health thread pinned, talking about a club which has amazing outreach programs and EitC. The club would be ashamed of a few (very small) of you. The majority are absolutely sound

I have been entirely clear on my Everton support, allegiances since day one here and because I have argued against grain of the echochamber three times, I must be a red, despite trying to provide a case of logic to each of them & each time, my predictions going on to be proved correct. Funny that

My reason for more posts outside of the Everton pages is simply there is more debate, its not an echochamber, whether it be on rules, general football , finance or other clubs. Anyone suggesting I must be a red for posting in the Liverpool thread should be reminded it has almost 3,000 pages so I suspect you can make that case against almost anyone here.

All the best decent fellow blues
 

I just want to highlight a section of the small print of their 20 page accounts, funnily enough not put out there by old posh boy Pearce et al.

"The directors acknowledge that due to the contiued Covid 19 pandemic... there is material uncertainty that exists as a result of the of thecurtailment of the current 20/21 season or the commencement of the 21/22 playing season....therefore this may cast significant doubt on the groups ability to going as a growing concern. Having assessed the mitigating actions and after making enquiries, the Directors are confident that the group can continue its operationl existence for the next 12 months from the date of signing the accounts off".

Now I'm no expert, but in accountancy language I would translate "going concern" etc to essentially read as;

"There are signfiicant financial challenges, if next season were to be delayed, or fans potentially not allowed back in, we might go bust as a business without external help. If everything goes smoothly, we should be alright for another 12 months".

That is quite astonishing to be frank. You dont see many companies with "doubt" raised as to them being a "growing concern".
@roydo is my intepretation of a growing concern reasonable in this instance?
I think @Neiler is an accountant
He may shed some light on this
 
Its funny as the penny is starting to drop for some of their fans, that they are not actually a very sustainably run football club.

That "going concern" thing essentially states the owner can't/wont put the funding in to guarentee the clubs existence if there is a financial shock akin to the season being delayed on its start date. Even West Hams owners provided far better assurances.

I actually though these accounts would be slightly worse (though next years will be a lot worse). FSG taking on the Covid related debt as opposed to LFC has helped cover up to 200m worth of debt so far (so it could have easily been another 50-60m this season onto their loss of nearly 50m in real terms). Their debt is now officially 200m, it will grow substantially more in next years accounts as you have a whole year of Covid as opposed to 2 months. There is also owners debt on top of that that will not be counted, but FSG are owed at least 200m for taking on LFC debt that at this point they don't count but if/when they want to sell it will be factored back in. So you are taling 2-400m worth of debt with thise likely to be 4-600m by the time the next set of accounts are announced.

How have they got into this trouble? Theyve done a Leeds. Warren Buffet also says crashes are good, because its like the tide going out- you get to see who has been swimming with no clothes on. That is very much LFC. When Euro-pounds are converted they have got the 3rd highest wage bill in world football. They are only behind Barcelona (1billion in debt) and City (who have heavy shareholder investment). They are above PSG, Bayern, Manchester United and are completely blowing out the water the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal etc. Chelsea are also massively backed, and they are absolutely miles ahead of them.

It doesn't take a genius to work out, that unless your ownership have huge reserves and a huge willingness to throw good money after bad (which FSG don't) or the business is able to cope with debt levels rising to up to 1bn (which they cant support) something has to give. They are spending well beyond their means and its catching up with them.

Another couple of things to note, from some digging around. The £325m wage bill DOES NOT include bonuses for winning the league, which were paid in July. So any hefty bonus payments will be added to next years accounts (in fairness, these will not be as big as some people suggest, but even if they are the 10% mark, you are looking at £355m wage bill and 2nd only to Barcelona). There is also some concern that some of the increments u.pwards are 1 off payments, but some are increases that then stick in, so tmhey are stuck with that wage moving forwards.

They also lead the way for agents fees, sign on fees etc. None of these get counted as wages, normally put into "other expenses". So in essence the "real" wage value if you added in then premiums they payon both of those is likely to be very close to 400m and amongst the biggest in world football.

It doesnt take into account the Nike deal, but given it was a pandemic the Nike deal will be nowhere near as big as they forecast, and now they are nowhere near the title and not in the CL it won't be moving forward.

In essence not only can they not support that wage spend, but it is highly reckless. It is starting to dawn on a few of the smarter ones, who can read balance sheets and financial statements the level of mess their reckless spending has got them into. The hole idea of "net spend" is ridiculous as well, as it really contributes very little to the running of a football club. Wage spend is far more significant, and like Leeds before they have gambled massively and failed.

As a final aside, selling their players for their intrinsic value (note a lot less than LFC's value and a lot less than their idiotic supporters value) will be very difficult. Salah might have an intrinsic value of say 70-80m, but given the financial difficulties I can't see anyone paying close to that for a 29 year old. The likes of Firmino and Mane, given the wages they are on, they will probably have to accept loan agreements if they were to go after the poor seasons they've both had. VVD has come back from a huge injury so nobody is spending more than they did on him.

So lets enjoy watching this car crash unfold.
 
To be perfectly honest, if they are a Liverpool fan, provided they stick to the rules, respect the forum, I don't see much issue especially if they contribute to discussion. What I can't understand, is pretending to not be a Liverpool fan on an Everton forum. Is legitimately weird behavior.
Absolutely agree. Be up front, engage and be respectful and there won’t be a problem.

Pretending to be a blue when you’re most obviously not will only provoke posters.

I too do not understand this weird behaviour that seems oddly limited to kopites. Pretending to be blues posting on an Everton forum. It just makes no sense - it’s very strange behaviour.
 
I think @Neiler is an accountant
He may shed some light on this

I've just added a bit more below. Did some digging and its pretty bad what is being reported. Like "we could be going into administration and have a 20 point penalty" bad. I thought one of the 6 might have done, and Spurs were the most likely candidates. But that section for LFC is very worrying. It's basically the owners not giving the assurances to the auditors that if x,y or z happen (i.e a season is delayed) there isnt the funding for Liverpool to continue. I mean, you don't need to be a genius to realise that is pretty bad.
 
PMSL at that Atheltic piece today by Simon Hughes on "Two Liverpool Football Clubs": the one run this side of the Atlantic (local and 'noble') and the other from Boston. It lays into FSGs venture capitalist style of management and the aloofness of the finance men from reality.

"President Mike Gordon is supposed to be the conduit between Boston and Liverpool. Yet in his conversations last week with disappointed high-level, Merseyside-based officials, he was told by more than one person that FSG would never have contemplated attempting to pull off such a move if one of them lived within driving distance of Anfield. As Peter Moore learned in 2017, closer geographical ties increase your chances of knowing exactly what the score is."

An attempt to try and shake off some of the shame of the Scab Club by implying the essence of LFC was tampered with: a club that's now at the mercy of a corporate mentality.

FFS, they were created 130 odd years ago by Tories determined to exploit football for cash; they are - and always have been -mammon through and through. THAT is their 'essence'.

Try again journos. It isn't washing.
 

Absolutely agree. Be up front, engage and be respectful and there won’t be a problem.

Pretending to be a blue when you’re most obviously not will only provoke posters.

I too do not understand this weird behaviour that seems oddly limited to kopites. Pretending to be blues posting on an Everton forum. It just makes no sense - it’s very strange behaviour.
They're essentially like political bots on social media who always try to frame a positive spin on a political party etc.

Sort of self-appointed mini PR firms
 
Go ahead and have your bullying pile on if you feel you need it. The irony on a forum that brilliantly has a mental health thread pinned, talking about a club which has amazing outreach programs and EitC. The club would be ashamed of a few (very small) of you. The majority are absolutely sound

I have been entirely clear on my Everton support, allegiances since day one here and because I have argued against grain of the echochamber three times, I must be a red, despite trying to provide a case of logic to each of them & each time, my predictions going on to be proved correct. Funny that

My reason for more posts outside of the Everton pages is simply there is more debate, its not an echochamber, whether it be on rules, general football , finance or other clubs. Anyone suggesting I must be a red for posting in the Liverpool thread should be reminded it has almost 3,000 pages so I suspect you can make that case against almost anyone here.

All the best decent fellow blues
2000 pages are your posts talking about net spend, progressive passes and their transfer policy.

(Just kidding)
 

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