ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[Everton1970]

I haven't looked at what they've spent mate, but I imagine most of them will have spent a similar amount. We were also starting from a point where they had teams who were 50%+ higher in terms of points totals.

Here’s the League table from end of season 16-17. 50% higher in terms of points? Only Chelsea, and nearly Spurs come close to that.

		Pld	W	D	L	F	A	GD	Pts
1	Chelsea	38	30	3	5	85	33	52	93
2	Tottenham Hotspur	38	26	8	4	86	26	60	86
3	Manchester City	38	23	9	6	80	39	41	78
4	Liverpool	38	22	10	6	78	42	36	76
5	Arsenal	38	23	6	9	77	44	33	75
6	Manchester United	38	18	15	5	54	29	25	69
7	Everton	38	17	10	11	62	44	18	61
8	Southampton	38	12	10	16	41	48	-7	46
9	AFC Bournemouth	38	12	10	16	55	67	-12	46
10	West Bromwich Albion	38	12	9	17	43	51	-8	45
11	West Ham United	38	12	9	17	47	64	-17	45

From summer 2017, Transfer spending, without player sales............

City 657m
Utd. 506m
Us. 500m
Chelsea 465m
Arsenal 435m
RS. 390
Spurs. 268

500m should be seeing us pull away from the likes of Wolves, West Ham and Watford. Wolves were in the Championship back then and finished above us last season!! Burnley finished above us the season before. We’ve spent a huge amount and have wasted it. You cannot dress it up any other way as you are trying to do. We finished 7th and have spent the 3rd largest amount out of them 7 clubs and are probably further away from them. This in a time when, arguably, Arsenal. Utd and Chelsea have been the worst they’ve been for years. We’ve had our biggest chance of cracking it during this period and have wasted it. We finished in a Europa League spot that year, all that spending and we’ve not had European football since. In fact, in the 2 seasons after the one above, we have failed to score more than the 62 goals we scored that season and have also conceded more than the 44 in the 2 seasons afterwards, despite a massive spend.

 

[KaiserEFC]

Here’s the League table from end of season 16-17. 50% higher in terms of points? Only Chelsea, and nearly Spurs come close to that.

		Pld	W	D	L	F	A	GD	Pts
1	Chelsea	38	30	3	5	85	33	52	93
2	Tottenham Hotspur	38	26	8	4	86	26	60	86
3	Manchester City	38	23	9	6	80	39	41	78
4	Liverpool	38	22	10	6	78	42	36	76
5	Arsenal	38	23	6	9	77	44	33	75
6	Manchester United	38	18	15	5	54	29	25	69
7	Everton	38	17	10	11	62	44	18	61
8	Southampton	38	12	10	16	41	48	-7	46
9	AFC Bournemouth	38	12	10	16	55	67	-12	46
10	West Bromwich Albion	38	12	9	17	43	51	-8	45
11	West Ham United	38	12	9	17	47	64	-17	45

From summer 2017, Transfer spending, without player sales............

City 657m
Utd. 506m
Us. 500m
Chelsea 465m
Arsenal 435m
RS. 390
Spurs. 268

500m should be seeing us pull away from the likes of Wolves, West Ham and Watford. Wolves were in the Championship back then and finished above us last season!! Burnley finished above us the season before. We’ve spent a huge amount and have wasted it. You cannot dress it up any other way as you are trying to do. We finished 7th and have spent the 3rd largest amount out of them 7 clubs and are probably further away from them. This in a time when, arguably, Arsenal. Utd and Chelsea have been the worst they’ve been for years. We’ve had our biggest chance of cracking it during this period and have wasted it. We finished in a Europa League spot that year, all that spending and we’ve not had European football since. In fact, in the 2 seasons after the one above, we have failed to score more than the 62 goals we scored that season and have also conceded more than the 44 in the 2 seasons afterwards, despite a massive spend.

Have you only just worked out that we’re crap mate?

 

[Dan Tanner]

They really are a unique breed aren't they...... View attachment 65721

That is everything that's wrong in football captured in one shot...

My missus is a red and if for one moment I tried to leave the house dressed like that she'd batter me senseless with a frying pan and I'd deserve every "clang" that smashed my bonce...

 

[Deleted member 38674]

Here’s the League table from end of season 16-17. 50% higher in terms of points? Only Chelsea, and nearly Spurs come close to that.

		Pld	W	D	L	F	A	GD	Pts
1	Chelsea	38	30	3	5	85	33	52	93
2	Tottenham Hotspur	38	26	8	4	86	26	60	86
3	Manchester City	38	23	9	6	80	39	41	78
4	Liverpool	38	22	10	6	78	42	36	76
5	Arsenal	38	23	6	9	77	44	33	75
6	Manchester United	38	18	15	5	54	29	25	69
7	Everton	38	17	10	11	62	44	18	61
8	Southampton	38	12	10	16	41	48	-7	46
9	AFC Bournemouth	38	12	10	16	55	67	-12	46
10	West Bromwich Albion	38	12	9	17	43	51	-8	45
11	West Ham United	38	12	9	17	47	64	-17	45

From summer 2017, Transfer spending, without player sales............

City 657m
Utd. 506m
Us. 500m
Chelsea 465m
Arsenal 435m
RS. 390
Spurs. 268

500m should be seeing us pull away from the likes of Wolves, West Ham and Watford. Wolves were in the Championship back then and finished above us last season!! Burnley finished above us the season before. We’ve spent a huge amount and have wasted it. You cannot dress it up any other way as you are trying to do. We finished 7th and have spent the 3rd largest amount out of them 7 clubs and are probably further away from them. This in a time when, arguably, Arsenal. Utd and Chelsea have been the worst they’ve been for years. We’ve had our biggest chance of cracking it during this period and have wasted it. We finished in a Europa League spot that year, all that spending and we’ve not had European football since. In fact, in the 2 seasons after the one above, we have failed to score more than the 62 goals we scored that season and have also conceded more than the 44 in the 2 seasons afterwards, despite a massive spend.

The fact we haven’t capitalised on this poor patch for United, Chelsea and Arsenal is galling.

As a club we’ve been horrendously mismanaged from top to bottom. Had Moyes had access to the finances that our last few managers have had, we’d probably be where Spurs are now.

 

[YoboCopter]

At least klopp is saying its likely he will leave them in 2022

 

[LEONARD]

At least klopp is saying its likely he will leave them in 2022

The RS fanbase will be all over this, banners on da Kop, petitions to parliament, and also a 57 page Echo supplement.

 

[Groucho]

They have a manager with a plan, and every player they have suits that plan. They are deffo on drugs though haha. How are they so fit at this stage?

As funny as I’ve found this over the past few weeks it’s been put about, it’s not actually true is it?

Remember Rio Ferdinand and his drugs test? Would they chance it?

 

[AndyC]

As funny as I’ve found this over the past few weeks it’s been put about, it’s not actually true is it?

Remember Rio Ferdinand and his drugs test? Would they chance it?

Not a snowballs chance in a furnace.

Let's just accept that they have a good, in areas a very good, squad who are now extremely used to the way each other plays, they play to the system their manager wants and he fills them so full of Teutonic 'we can't lose' mindset that they actually don't think they'll lose.

They've had this kind of self-belief since Shankly (@Eggs) revived their fortunes and every manager since - bar Hodgson - has maintained it.

Klopp, regrettably, has enhanced it and taken it to another level and to a man, his players buy into it and perform.

Said it endlessly but, we've lacked that kind of winning/can't lose mental approach since the mid 1980s and until we regain it, we'll be second best to them and others.

 

[Bluerover]

League is theirs this year I’m afraid, so lump on to soften the blow.

Nah. Citeh again.

 

[Efcjake]

We've spent a huge amount (500m in 3 years) relative to the sides above us

NET SPEND

 

[Tin-Tin]

The only real problem they will have is if they get a dodgy injury to one of the front 3 which keeps them out for 2-3 months.

They have literally all played nearly every game for the last 2 seasons and considering the intensity they play at, that quite rare.

 

[catcherintherye]

Here’s the League table from end of season 16-17. 50% higher in terms of points? Only Chelsea, and nearly Spurs come close to that.

		Pld	W	D	L	F	A	GD	Pts
1	Chelsea	38	30	3	5	85	33	52	93
2	Tottenham Hotspur	38	26	8	4	86	26	60	86
3	Manchester City	38	23	9	6	80	39	41	78
4	Liverpool	38	22	10	6	78	42	36	76
5	Arsenal	38	23	6	9	77	44	33	75
6	Manchester United	38	18	15	5	54	29	25	69
7	Everton	38	17	10	11	62	44	18	61
8	Southampton	38	12	10	16	41	48	-7	46
9	AFC Bournemouth	38	12	10	16	55	67	-12	46
10	West Bromwich Albion	38	12	9	17	43	51	-8	45
11	West Ham United	38	12	9	17	47	64	-17	45

From summer 2017, Transfer spending, without player sales............

City 657m
Utd. 506m
Us. 500m
Chelsea 465m
Arsenal 435m
RS. 390
Spurs. 268

500m should be seeing us pull away from the likes of Wolves, West Ham and Watford. Wolves were in the Championship back then and finished above us last season!! Burnley finished above us the season before. We’ve spent a huge amount and have wasted it. You cannot dress it up any other way as you are trying to do. We finished 7th and have spent the 3rd largest amount out of them 7 clubs and are probably further away from them. This in a time when, arguably, Arsenal. Utd and Chelsea have been the worst they’ve been for years. We’ve had our biggest chance of cracking it during this period and have wasted it. We finished in a Europa League spot that year, all that spending and we’ve not had European football since. In fact, in the 2 seasons after the one above, we have failed to score more than the 62 goals we scored that season and have also conceded more than the 44 in the 2 seasons afterwards, despite a massive spend.

I suppose I was measuring from the season before, which was the season Moshiri arrived (so perhaps a more obvious one to start the judgement of his reign). On that season Arsenal, Manchester United, Spurs and Manchester City all finished around 50% higher than us in terms of points.

The majority of the teams above us had suffered poor seasons that year (and their lowest points totals).Klopp would have his first season under his belt at Liverpool, United and City went and got Mourinho and Pep while Chelsea went and got Conte.

I make the spending gross & (net) from that time the following;

Everton 457- (180)
Liverpool-445 (180)
City- 700- (475)
United- 560- (410)
Chelsea- 585- (105)
Arsenal- 450- (250)
Tottenham-290 (115)

So we sit 4th in terms of gross spend during that time (but only 20 million off being 6th). In terms of not we are 4th/5th again. Pretty sizeable investment particularly when compared to whats gone before, but by no means so substantial you would say we have a divine right to be overtaking teams.

We also know, that the CEO, DOF, manager (x 2) structure of the board were all changed 12 months ago. That is as much of an acknowledgement as you can get that that money was spent badly. We probably spent 60% of the above gross to stand still, moving from 47-48 points while falling even further behind the sides above us in real terms. If we are to pinpoint where the problems have been it is within that 24 month period.

We are progressing in the last 12 months. Perhaps not at the speed that people want, but that to me is where the mistakes were made.

 

[Everton1970]

I suppose I was measuring from the season before, which was the season Moshiri arrived (so perhaps a more obvious one to start the judgement of his reign). On that season Arsenal, Manchester United, Spurs and Manchester City all finished around 50% higher than us in terms of points.

The majority of the teams above us had suffered poor seasons that year (and their lowest points totals).Klopp would have his first season under his belt at Liverpool, United and City went and got Mourinho and Pep while Chelsea went and got Conte.

I make the spending gross & (net) from that time the following;

Everton 457- (180)
Liverpool-445 (180)
City- 700- (475)
United- 560- (410)
Chelsea- 585- (105)
Arsenal- 450- (250)
Tottenham-290 (115)

So we sit 4th in terms of gross spend during that time (but only 20 million off being 6th). In terms of not we are 4th/5th again. Pretty sizeable investment particularly when compared to whats gone before, but by no means so substantial you would say we have a divine right to be overtaking teams.

We also know, that the CEO, DOF, manager (x 2) structure of the board were all changed 12 months ago. That is as much of an acknowledgement as you can get that that money was spent badly. We probably spent 60% of the above gross to stand still, moving from 47-48 points while falling even further behind the sides above us in real terms. If we are to pinpoint where the problems have been it is within that 24 month period.

We are progressing in the last 12 months. Perhaps not at the speed that people want, but that to me is where the mistakes were made.

Seems you played around with them figures slightly. Seems we’re clear 4th in the net spend and gross spend, over 60m more net than the 6th team Chelsea. Other than the RS, where you’re over 100m out, I think you’ve just added their figures up instead of subtracting the years they made a profit. The rest of your figures, give or take 20-30m, work out about right.

Premier League - Transfer balance and five-year comparison

In dieser Statistik werden die Transferbilanzen der letzten fünf bzw. zehn Jahre der Vereine der Premier League miteinander verglichen.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

		19/20	18/19	17/18	16/17	NET
	Manchester City	£-89.10m	£-22.04m	£-203.54m	£-160.34m	475m
	Liverpool FC	£29.25m	£-126.99m	£18.56m	£4.93m	75m
	Chelsea FC	£79.52m	£-124.43m	£-53.91m	£-21.96m	128m
	Tottenham Hotspur	£-71.10m	£4.82m	£-15.93m	£-28.08m	110m
	Arsenal FC	£-91.89m	£-65.03m	£3.02m	£-92.42m	246m
	Manchester United	£-84.60m	£-46.94m	£-137.61m	£-124.07m	393m
	Everton FC	£-35.46m	£-64.04m	£-69.14m	£-22.59m	191m

 

[Everton1970]

NET SPEND

Still doesn’t make good reading. See above

 

[BlueInNZ]

As funny as I’ve found this over the past few weeks it’s been put about, it’s not actually true is it?

Remember Rio Ferdinand and his drugs test? Would they chance it?

Lance Armstrong says hi.

In all seriousness I've read a lot about the doping in pro cycling, Paul Kimmage's book is a really good read about why many pro cyclist, even average ones, dope up. French rugby team allegedly took speed before test match v All Blacks in 1986. With the money at stake these days I am sure that sooner or later we will start to hear about how it is taking place in football.