ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[Pilks]

This is decent tbf

In all seriousness, am I missing something here? They are deaf fans. They are watching the game. And someone who is sitting WITH HIS BACK TO THE PITCH is 'signing' for them? I'll agree that it's 'decent' if I can see any way in which it's not utterly pointless.

Unless of course it's all about taking a photo of him to look all considerate and inclusive so that people forget the appalling way the club has treated wheelchair-bound fans over recent years

Oh, but I'm just cynical...

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Lance Armstrong says hi.

In all seriousness I've read a lot about the doping in pro cycling, Paul Kimmage's book is a really good read about why many pro cyclist, even average ones, dope up. French rugby team allegedly took speed before test match v All Blacks in 1986. With the money at stake these days I am sure that sooner or later we will start to hear about how it is taking place in football.

Juventus in the 90s were all over the EPO and blood transfusions that were so popular in cycling and athletics at the time. Milan too. Chelsea had some extremely odd practices approved by the EPL and FA before WADA rules took over. Operacion Puerto in Spain had bags of blood from "A tennis player" and three top football teams which were all destroyed before any DNA testing could take place to confirm their identities.

You have 300% less chance of being dope tested as a professional football player as a professional cyclist (based on number of tests performed per head of the athlete population) in Europe... Why would all that knowledge from the 90s suddenly go to waste?

Nobody wants to think about Football not being on the level... which is why its never tested.

 

[daza_1973]

Lance Armstrong says hi.

In all seriousness I've read a lot about the doping in pro cycling, Paul Kimmage's book is a really good read about why many pro cyclist, even average ones, dope up. French rugby team allegedly took speed before test match v All Blacks in 1986. With the money at stake these days I am sure that sooner or later we will start to hear about how it is taking place in football.

The fitness and energy levels of mane in particular doesn't sit right after hardly any break this summer and their gruelling season last year.
Salah too has had two consecutive curtailed summers in a row and Milner running around like a 20 year old - it sticks out like a sore thumb, just watch the last half hour/ extra time of the super cup final the other week.

 

[DixieScoresAgain]

Shocking reading and those figures highlight how bad the recruitment had been under the Koeman/Walsh era.

Just shows that at the start of that spending spree the teams to dislodge from the top 6 were the two teams who just contested the CL final 4 years later, both their net spends in that time frame are impressive and sadly shows how amazing their managers and recruitment are right now and depressingly shows how far ahead they are of us right now.

I guess we have to Target one of the teams of Chelsea, United and Arsenal to gatecrash the top 6 while also have the task of getting there ahead of Wolves and Leicester.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

The fitness and energy levels of mane in particular doesn't sit right after hardly any break this summer and their gruelling season last year.
Salah too has had two consecutive curtailed summers in a row and Milner running around like a 20 year old - it sticks out like a sore thumb, just watch the last half hour/ extra time of the super cup final the other week.

Let's be realistic about this, however. If Liverpool are doing it, then you can bet your boots near every other top club are at it too. Elite sport is an arms race and every club, athlete and team will be operating right on the edge of what is allowed and what isn't in the constant quest to improve conditioning and recovery. The rumours about which teams blood was in the Puerto bags bags back in 2006 were Barcelona, Real and Atletico. We know that Juve and Marseille were using EPO in the 90s.

Why would it only be Liverpool? Why not City, United, Chelsea (who were already criticized by WADA for the platelets thing) or even Everton.

I really believe British sport (by which I mean both codes of Rugby and Football) has some serious waking up to do about drugs in sport.

 

[Yarrgh]

Juventus in the 90s were all over the EPO and blood transfusions that were so popular in cycling and athletics at the time. Milan too. Chelsea had some extremely odd practices approved by the EPL and FA before WADA rules took over. Operacion Puerto in Spain had bags of blood from "A tennis player" and three top football teams which were all destroyed before any DNA testing could take place to confirm their identities.

You have 300% less chance of being dope tested as a professional football player as a professional cyclist (based on number of tests performed per head of the athlete population) in Europe... Why would all that knowledge from the 90s suddenly go to waste?

Nobody wants to think about Football not being on the level... which is why its never tested.

At the very best, they are operating at the finest margins of sports fitness and making sure that they don't cross the line into illegal practices. City I am sure will be at the forefront of this. Pep has a reputation from his playing and managing for 'blurring' that line. City, have a whole set up for sports fitness, and I think that this will moderate any excesses or likelihood of going over into what is unacceptable. Also they have enough players to not have to run individuals into the ground so recovery throughout the season for flagging players is possible.

Klopp left a car crash in terms of player fitness at Dortmund after seeing them outperform everyone for a couple of seasons. Liverpools big disadvantage is that they don't have the back up players. Mane I think is incredible in terms of performance levels, and I suspect that he is naturally supremely fit. Firminho and Salah though I could see having a few niggles or even fall off a cliff once triedness kicks in. I am hoping for the Dormund effect to kick in at Liverpool (been waiting half a season now - and suspected Buvacs departure was going to be the key point), and am still hoping (though they can all recover once they move on to pastures new - I don't wish any player to have any long term ill effects). I'm giving it to Christmas for the fatigue and fall-over in performance there.

 

[Yarrgh]

Let's be realistic about this, however. If Liverpool are doing it, then you can bet your boots near every other top club are at it too. Elite sport is an arms race and every club, athlete and team will be operating right on the edge of what is allowed and what isn't in the constant quest to improve conditioning and recovery. The rumours about which teams blood was in the Puerto bags bags back in 2006 were Barcelona, Real and Atletico. We know that Juve and Marseille were using EPO in the 90s.

Why would it only be Liverpool? Why not City, United, Chelsea (who were already criticized by WADA for the platelets thing) or even Everton.

I really believe British sport (by which I mean both codes of Rugby and Football) has some serious waking up to do about drugs in sport.

The only performance drug that our boys are taking it would appear is mogadon.

 

[brieverton]

Not a snowballs chance in a furnace.

Let's just accept that they have a good, in areas a very good, squad who are now extremely used to the way each other plays, they play to the system their manager wants and he fills them so full of Teutonic 'we can't lose' mindset that they actually don't think they'll lose.

They've had this kind of self-belief since Shankly (@Eggs) revived their fortunes and every manager since - bar Hodgson - has maintained it.

Klopp, regrettably, has enhanced it and taken it to another level and to a man, his players buy into it and perform.

Said it endlessly but, we've lacked that kind of winning/can't lose mental approach since the mid 1980s and until we regain it, we'll be second best to them and others.

This is the correct analysis as unpalatable as it seems for Evertonians. Even aside from the fact that they have a vastly superior squad to ours, their work-rate is phenomenal.

And whilst The Pit is always a difficult place to get points at, they have the whole psychological thing going on there with that anthem and of course they exploit it to the full. Why wouldn't they? Many sides are intimidated even before the game starts, and that is an enormous advantage for them.

It can't ever excuse our dismal record there though, considering some of the other sides that have won there in recent times, at least once.

I find it galling that we cannot match their effort and endeavour in a lot of our own games, last Friday evening being another prime example.

I utterly detest them, but if we looked at their set-up in terms of things we could at least attempt to match and/or emulate in our own way, we would be the better for it. Writing off their recent success as insignificant/lucky etc won't make it go away.

 

[BlueInNZ]

Let's be realistic about this, however. If Liverpool are doing it, then you can bet your boots near every other top club are at it too. Elite sport is an arms race and every club, athlete and team will be operating right on the edge of what is allowed and what isn't in the constant quest to improve conditioning and recovery. The rumours about which teams blood was in the Puerto bags bags back in 2006 were Barcelona, Real and Atletico. We know that Juve and Marseille were using EPO in the 90s.

Why would it only be Liverpool? Why not City, United, Chelsea (who were already criticized by WADA for the platelets thing) or even Everton.

I really believe British sport (by which I mean both codes of Rugby and Football) has some serious waking up to do about drugs in sport.

Like a few, myself included, have said if pro cyclists doped then why not pro footballers?

Compare wages earned between the two and it's a no brainer. And like you say, many teams will be at it just like the pro teams were.

With pro cyclists the EPO thing caused a few deaths. Heaven forbid we get that.

Only solution is very rigorous testing. Maybe. But as you said, how many fans don't want their hero to be found out?

 

[Yarrgh]

Like a few, myself included, have said if pro cyclists doped then why not pro footballers?

Compare wages earned between the two and it's a no brainer. And like you say, many teams will be at it just like the pro teams were.

With pro cyclists the EPO thing caused a few deaths. Heaven forbid we get that.

Only solution is very rigorous testing. Maybe. But as you said, how many fans don't want their hero to be found out?

A randomly timed blood test every month per player during the pre-season and season would be interesting.

 

[MikeH72]

At least klopp is saying its likely he will leave them in 2022

Really? Massive bonus that.

 

[BlueInNZ]

A randomly timed blood test every month per player during the pre-season and season would be interesting.

I quite agree. Is the will there to do it? I'd suggest not. Not until bad things happen.

 

[MikeH72]

League is theirs this year I’m afraid, so lump on to soften the blow.

Got on them, Atletico and Ajax in a treble at 90/1. Them winning their opening 3 games means nothing though to be fair, they come flying out of the blocks every season without fail.

 

[davids]

Like a few, myself included, have said if pro cyclists doped then why not pro footballers?

Compare wages earned between the two and it's a no brainer. And like you say, many teams will be at it just like the pro teams were.

With pro cyclists the EPO thing caused a few deaths. Heaven forbid we get that.

Only solution is very rigorous testing. Maybe. But as you said, how many fans don't want their hero to be found out?

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[dublinbluenose]

In all seriousness, am I missing something here? They are deaf fans. They are watching the game. And someone who is sitting WITH HIS BACK TO THE PITCH is 'signing' for them? I'll agree that it's 'decent' if I can see any way in which it's not utterly pointless.

Unless of course it's all about taking a photo of him to look all considerate and inclusive so that people forget the appalling way the club has treated wheelchair-bound fans over recent years

Oh, but I'm just cynical...

Think it's part of a large suite of things that clubs do to make the game more accessible to people with difficulties