2022/23 Ellis Simms

[Lineker]

Dcl is an excellent target man, but him flicking a header from pickford is not hold up play.

 

[Lanolin]

Target man and hold up play are two different things, which are often but not always found in the same player.

Unnecessary semantics in this case because I've already stated that I think Calvert Lewin is both a good target man and good at holding the ball up.

I think the all around play criticism is a preconceived one by people looking to explain why a player that scores as frequently as he does keeps not playing regularly. I've seen nothing to suggest he can't handle it when he's given a real level of support (that's to say what was he really supposed to do at Anfield?). But yeah the guy who is dribbling Koulibaly and dropping into a 10v11 situation and combining well against Spurs doesn't give me all around play concerns to the level that he shouldn't be on the field.

It's 'criticism' from people who've seen him play a lot more than you have, and from pretty much all of his coaches. I appreciate that you believe you can see the matrix and none of us plebs can, but personally I think you're showing a fundamental lack of understanding of the game and/or what people are saying there. That Simms has the ability to do some good things has never really been in question - whether he has the ability to do the hard yards over 90 minutes, dragging people out of position, closing down passing lanes, creating overloads out wide etc is the question that he hasn't convincingly answered yet. As I said, I'm not saying he definitely can't do it, i'm saying he hasn't really shown that ability so far and losing that side of things from the team would potentially undermine the whole set up.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Unnecessary semantics in this case because I've already stated that I think Calvert Lewin is both a good target man and good at holding the ball up.

It's 'criticism' from people who've seen him play a lot more than you have, and from pretty much all of his coaches. I appreciate that you believe you can see the matrix and none of us plebs can, but personally I think you're showing a fundamental lack of understanding of the game and/or what people are saying there. That Simms has the ability to do some good things has never really been in question - whether he has the ability to do the hard yards over 90 minutes, dragging people out of position, closing down passing lanes, creating overloads out wide etc is the question that he hasn't convincingly answered yet. As I said, I'm not saying he definitely can't do it, i'm saying he hasn't really shown that ability so far and losing that side of things from the team would potentially undermine the whole set up.

Sounds like bad management for me, not wanting to teach a talented player and have patience as he learns.

It's fine though, I'm just the moron who thinks scoring goals might matter.

 

[Lanolin]

Sounds like bad management for me, not wanting to teach a talented player and have patience as he learns.

It's fine though, I'm just the moron who thinks scoring goals might matter.

Have you seen the league table? Did you see what the auditors said about our accounts? We need to pick the team that is going to get us the most points in the here and now, not the one which might make simms a better player in future. If you think that the potential development of one 22 year old is more important than the clubs survival in the PL - and therefore potentially it’s entire existence -then moron would be a pretty kind description to be honest.

The pretty simple point being made is that ‘scoring goals’ doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Just having a striker who is more likely to score when given the chance does not make you more likely to pick up points if it comes at the expense of team structure. If simms can fit into the way the team are playing at the moment and score more then of course we need to get him into the side. If he can’t then we have to be very careful that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. It’s not exactly a controversial take.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Have you seen the league table? Did you see what the auditors said about our accounts? We need to pick the team that is going to get us the most points in the here and now, not the one which might make simms a better player in future. If you think that the potential development of one 22 year old is more important than the clubs survival in the PL - and therefore potentially it’s entire existence -then moron would be a pretty kind description to be honest.

The pretty simple point being made is that ‘scoring goals’ doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Just having a striker who is more likely to score when given the chance does not make you more likely to pick up points if it comes at the expense of team structure. If simms can fit into the way the team are playing at the moment and score more then of course we need to get him into the side. If he can’t then we have to be very careful that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. It’s not exactly a controversial take.

It's wild talking about structure when Gray is going here there and anywhere to get on the ball.

But here we go again with the Simms can't play because of (fill in the blank). It'll end when he leaves as always with out attackers.

To me striker (espeically a lone striker) and goalkeeper are basically singular positions. You pick the guy who is the best at scoring and the best at making saves. The rest of it is secondary and teachable. Manage the team.

 

[Lanolin]

It's wild talking about structure when Gray is going here there and anywhere to get on the ball.

But here we go again with the Simms can't play because of (fill in the blank). It'll end when he leaves as always with out attackers.

To me striker (espeically a lone striker) and goalkeeper are basically singular positions. You pick the guy who is the best at scoring and the best at making saves. The rest of it is secondary and teachable. Manage the team.

Ok cheers rinus.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Ok cheers rinus.

Maybe we can just keep getting Keane in shooting positions instead.

Simms playing is best for the team right now.

 

[allen]

He's not really either. Richarlison is an in between player who hasn't really mastered playing centrally or wide and Dominic Calvert-Lewin is much more of a target man and physical player than Simms looks to be so far. I also think Simms has a natural goal scoring ability that alludes Dom unfortunately.

You don’t think Simms looks like a physical target man in the making?

Okay, bud. If that’s your view.

 

[TheBigIguana]

You don’t think Simms looks like a physical target man in the making?

Okay, bud. If that’s your view.

I don't think every big player is automatically a target man, no.

 

[allen]

I don't think every big player is automatically a target man, no.

Okay.

But Simms is.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Okay.

But Simms is.

I do not think so. He's a poacher and he's good with his feet. He doesn't win headers (at least yet). We don't need to make him something he isn't because he's tall.

 

[MerseysideBlue]

Thought he showed very promising signs against spurs. Its clear to see that they are working with him on the training ground on how he should use his size and physicality to hold off defenders and protect the ball. Thought he did that a couple of times and brought the ball out wide.
His goal against Chelsea was very Drogba-esque. He certainly has potential.

 

[catcherintherye]

Have you seen the league table? Did you see what the auditors said about our accounts? We need to pick the team that is going to get us the most points in the here and now, not the one which might make simms a better player in future. If you think that the potential development of one 22 year old is more important than the clubs survival in the PL - and therefore potentially it’s entire existence -then moron would be a pretty kind description to be honest.

The pretty simple point being made is that ‘scoring goals’ doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Just having a striker who is more likely to score when given the chance does not make you more likely to pick up points if it comes at the expense of team structure. If simms can fit into the way the team are playing at the moment and score more then of course we need to get him into the side. If he can’t then we have to be very careful that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. It’s not exactly a controversial take.

I also think how he has used Simms lately is good management. He has introduced him in smaller aspects, where he had everything to gain and little to lose, and hes made an impact. I'm not sure people can say it hasnt been good management when it has worked.

If you were going to be critical of Dyche it may be that he threw him in for 90 at Anfield, and when the game was more tactical and less stretched he didnt suit that at all.

When you're a bad team, games kind of have an arc to them. The game gets set up for 60 minutes, then people start showing their hand a bit more, and spaces emerge. That's where I think Simms is best.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I do not think so. He's a poacher and he's good with his feet. He doesn't win headers (at least yet). We don't need to make him something he isn't because he's tall.

I actually agree with you. I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s a target man, and all the reports from Hearts seem to say he likes to be running onto through balls.

We look more dangerous when he’s on the pitch so it wouldn’t hurt to give him a start as Gray isn’t troubling teams at the moment despite working hard. Maybe Docuoure’s suspension will see him get a chance.

 

[Lanolin]

I also think how he has used Simms lately is good management. He has introduced him in smaller aspects, where he had everything to gain and little to lose, and hes made an impact. I'm not sure people can say it hasnt been good management when it has worked.

If you were going to be critical of Dyche it may be that he threw him in for 90 at Anfield, and when the game was more tactical and less stretched he didnt suit that at all.

When you're a bad team, games kind of have an arc to them. The game gets set up for 60 minutes, then people start showing their hand a bit more, and spaces emerge. That's where I think Simms is best.

Yeah I think all of that is fair. I can’t stress enough that I’m not saying we shouldn’t give simms a start, just that I think some people are maybe not fully appreciating what dyche is looking to do and how having just one player in the side who doesn’t fully buy into it could make the whole thing unravel.

Literally nobody on this board has been more critical of doucoure than I have in the last 3 years, but I can see that what he brings to the current set up is important, and am not stupid/self absorbed enough to think that playing a better technical footballer instead of him would lead to better results. I find it bizarre that some people evidently lack the ability to see or acknowledge that type of thing.