England Under 21 Euro 2015 Thread

[marty mcfly]

There is no doubt it, good coaching is a the centre of having a successful football nation. As is having an identifiable style that everyone buys into. British football is all about winning at development level. Children are coached on "how to win a match", doesn't matter so much about technique or skill. Go and watch schools football or underage leagues and see what is happening. Frustrated ex players are re-living their youth by intimidating kids into winning. If a team has a larger kid who can push the others about it is all about getting the ball to him.
My grandson has been playing in goals through from under 10, every week he plays on a full size pitch with full size goals, he is not big enough to reach the cross bar let alone cover the 8 yards. He has stuck at it but I have seen loads of young lads stop playing because they get disheartened. The ball is also too heavy for them, they can't hit long passes because they can't kick the heavy ball any distance.
Following this they go into league teams battling for points.
No one ever takes the time to invest in technique or skill simply for the sake of it. Even when they reach the highest levels they now are coached by people who have a system that stops teams getting regulated. There are too many managers who have worked out a system that avoids regulation. They get a young British player and mould him into a player who can "do a job" in a rigid system. They do not develop talent they develop systems.
The Premiership is competitive, it is not very good.
A root and branch change is required, changing one element of what is wrong will not get it right.

I'm pretty sure all youth teams around the world are based on wanting to win and succeed. I take your point about the heavy ball and big pitches and how the boys that develop earlier have such an advantage. I'm pretty sure when you look at videos of players at La Masia they're all on smaller pitches with less players per team.

 

[marty mcfly]

Good coaches develop good players. Personally don't think Southgate is that bad but the rest are pretty dodgy including Roy. Hopefully more will start coming through soon.

Do international managers develop talent?

Surely their job is just to find a system that can win with what's available.

 

[hullefc]

I'm pretty sure all youth teams around the world are based on wanting to win and succeed. I take your point about the heavy ball and big pitches and how the boys that develop earlier have such an advantage. I'm pretty sure when you look at videos of players at La Masia they're all on smaller pitches with less players per team.

This is what Ronald De Boer said in 2014, "When I see the English boys playing – at 12, 13, 14 years old – I always have the feeling they put winning first. No, it should be developing first. When you have a big guy who is 12 but looks like a 14 or 15-year-old boy, of course he wins against the guy who is small. But the guy who is small is learning how to kick a ball, what’s around him – and that’s what we focus on.

It’s not the end result that you win, it’s that at the end he’s going to be a great player.

Strength of world football

You see it more and more, it’s not easy to win against smaller countries. They are trained by better managers, they are very well prepared and they give everything. They put two buses in front of the goal so it’s very hard. Overall I think the level of football is increasing and the gap between teams is getting closer.

If you saw Algeria at the World Cup, they were defending but when they had the ball they played attractive football. They really wanted to play and their technical ability was surprisingly high".

 

[Jacob]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/international/article4480136.ece
Tonight.....

Gareth Southgate: I was wrong on Ross Barkley

Matt Hughes Deputy Football Correspondent
Published 1 minute ago

Gareth Southgate admitted last night that he regretted not taking Ross Barkley to the European Under-21 Championship and said that the Football Association will reconsider its approach to using senior internationals in the team.
Barkley, Raheem Sterling, Jack Wilshere, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Phil Jones were left at home despite being eligible for the tournament in the Czech Republic, from which England were eliminated at the group stage of the competition for the third time in a rowafter a 3-1 defeat by Italy on Wednesday.
Barkley is on holiday in Ibiza after being left out of Southgate’s squad, a decision that the head coach has been looking at after England’s elimination. The Everton midfielder has 13 England caps, but unlike the other senior internationals who were overlooked, he has not established himself as a regular for Roy Hodgson, the manager.
“Ross is one we’ve got to think about,” Southgate said. “I still think it’s not clear because he hadn’t kicked a ball with me for 20 months. So to bring him into the group isn’t something that would necessarily have worked. For Ross’s development would it have been something good for his experience? An under-21 finals is a high-quality field.”

 

[sd_1992]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/international/article4480136.ece
Tonight.....

Gareth Southgate: I was wrong on Ross Barkley

Matt Hughes Deputy Football Correspondent
Published 1 minute ago

Gareth Southgate admitted last night that he regretted not taking Ross Barkley to the European Under-21 Championship and said that the Football Association will reconsider its approach to using senior internationals in the team.
Barkley, Raheem Sterling, Jack Wilshere, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Phil Jones were left at home despite being eligible for the tournament in the Czech Republic, from which England were eliminated at the group stage of the competition for the third time in a rowafter a 3-1 defeat by Italy on Wednesday.
Barkley is on holiday in Ibiza after being left out of Southgate’s squad, a decision that the head coach has been looking at after England’s elimination. The Everton midfielder has 13 England caps, but unlike the other senior internationals who were overlooked, he has not established himself as a regular for Roy Hodgson, the manager.
“Ross is one we’ve got to think about,” Southgate said. “I still think it’s not clear because he hadn’t kicked a ball with me for 20 months. So to bring him into the group isn’t something that would necessarily have worked. For Ross’s development would it have been something good for his experience? An under-21 finals is a high-quality field.”

So it's evertons fault again.... pretty sure barkley has never even played for Southgate...

 

[hullefc]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/international/article4480136.ece
Tonight.....

Gareth Southgate: I was wrong on Ross Barkley

Matt Hughes Deputy Football Correspondent
Published 1 minute ago

Gareth Southgate admitted last night that he regretted not taking Ross Barkley to the European Under-21 Championship and said that the Football Association will reconsider its approach to using senior internationals in the team.
Barkley, Raheem Sterling, Jack Wilshere, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Phil Jones were left at home despite being eligible for the tournament in the Czech Republic, from which England were eliminated at the group stage of the competition for the third time in a rowafter a 3-1 defeat by Italy on Wednesday.
Barkley is on holiday in Ibiza after being left out of Southgate’s squad, a decision that the head coach has been looking at after England’s elimination. The Everton midfielder has 13 England caps, but unlike the other senior internationals who were overlooked, he has not established himself as a regular for Roy Hodgson, the manager.
“Ross is one we’ve got to think about,” Southgate said. “I still think it’s not clear because he hadn’t kicked a ball with me for 20 months. So to bring him into the group isn’t something that would necessarily have worked. For Ross’s development would it have been something good for his experience? An under-21 finals is a high-quality field.”

Barkley is the new England scapegoat for failure. A RS hack on Talkcrap couldn't wait to blame England's poor performance on Barkley for not going. He said Stering and Wilshere shouldn't have gone because they are fixtures in the full England team. But Barkley is not and should have went. 'Even though Everton would have had something to say about that because they wanted him to have a rest'. So clearly Everton and Barkley are to blame for the debacle in the Czech republic.

 

[Jacob]

Barkley is the new England scapegoat for failure. A RS hack on Talkcrap couldn't wait to blame England's poor performance on Barkley for not going. He said Stering and Wilshere shouldn't have gone because they are fixtures in the full England team. But Barkley is not and should have went. 'Even though Everton would have had something to say about that because they wanted him to have a rest'. So clearly Everton and Barkley are to blame for the debacle in the Czech republic.

It says more about these people that they don't know the facts...as if Ross Barkley chose not to go when the facts are that..(from the same article).

Dan Ashworth, the FA director of elite development, offered a more robust defence of England’s squad selection, arguing that some players will always progress through the under-21s quicker than others.
“Just to be clear, none of those senior players mentioned refused to play,” Ashworth said. “The question wasn’t asked. They have moved on from the under-21s and are established senior players.

 

[lesbattersby]

Not being English an looking on from the outside, I find the media circus following the tournament pathetic tbh. You have a group of young players getting ridiculed and put down at the beginning of their careers. The media are hounding them at a young age now and then they wonder why the national team be woeful at major tournaments. The out cry from former pros saying the players from the national team should of dropped down is laughable. How would they have felt if they had of played all the qualifying rounds, to be dropped before a tournament for someone who never kicked a ball in qualifying. I'm sure gary linekar would of been fine with being dropped for Italia 90. The English media are so desperate for any kind of success no matter how small or meaningless. It's pathetic really. You'd nearly think that winning the u21s ment winning the world cup in a few years.

 

[Billy Dean]

They need to change that policy in future and keep young players involved in the U21 even if they've had a taste of senior football. Other successful nations do it. Germany took Ginter, who was in their WC winning squad last year.

 

[LinekersLegs]

They need to change that policy in future and keep young players involved in the U21 even if they've had a taste of senior football. Other successful nations do it. Germany took Ginter, who was in their WC winning squad last year.

Agree, Stones played a few times for the seniors but was also an important member of the qualifying team. As it turned out he had an unfortunate tournament but think that is more the model they should be following.

Barkley however hadn't played at all under Southgate, to suddenly expect him to click with both manager and team in the couple of weeks before the tournament is daft - especially when his inclusion would have meant that some poor sod who had been involved in us qualifying had to stay home.

The only problem is burnout, doubt Kane going on Spurs post season tour helped him much as preperation.

 

[Chang Elephant]

They need real talented managers in charge, not just time serving FA lackeys. Under 21's have had Stuart Pearce followed by incredibly something almost as untalented in Southgate. Then further up we have Hodgson and Brooking providing the overall coaching guidance to English football.

 

[Garymc2412]

They need real talented managers in charge, not just time serving FA lackeys. Under 21's have had Stuart Pearce followed by incredibly something almost as untalented in Southgate. Then further up we have Hodgson and Brooking providing the overall coaching guidance to English football.

Until England find the balls to put someone with top football knowledge in charge of u21 or full england teams , as a nation we will probably always qualify for tournaments but will then go out at group stage or first good team we play in knockouts.
I don't know who to put in charge but would not be happy if south gate or hodgeson became future everton managers

 

[Chang Elephant]

would not be happy if south gate or hodgeson became future everton managers

I'd be gutted ffs if they turned up at Goodison

 

[Toffeelover]

It says more about these people that they don't know the facts...as if Ross Barkley chose not to go when the facts are that..(from the same article).

Dan Ashworth, the FA director of elite development, offered a more robust defence of England’s squad selection, arguing that some players will always progress through the under-21s quicker than others.
“Just to be clear, none of those senior players mentioned refused to play,” Ashworth said. “The question wasn’t asked. They have moved on from the under-21s and are established senior players.

Needs to tell that to the Hughes guy!

 

[marty mcfly]

This is what Ronald De Boer said in 2014, "When I see the English boys playing – at 12, 13, 14 years old – I always have the feeling they put winning first. No, it should be developing first. When you have a big guy who is 12 but looks like a 14 or 15-year-old boy, of course he wins against the guy who is small. But the guy who is small is learning how to kick a ball, what’s around him – and that’s what we focus on.

It’s not the end result that you win, it’s that at the end he’s going to be a great player.

Strength of world football

You see it more and more, it’s not easy to win against smaller countries. They are trained by better managers, they are very well prepared and they give everything. They put two buses in front of the goal so it’s very hard. Overall I think the level of football is increasing and the gap between teams is getting closer.

If you saw Algeria at the World Cup, they were defending but when they had the ball they played attractive football. They really wanted to play and their technical ability was surprisingly high".

Almost every other country defends as a team and attacks as a team. A bit like Basketball. We have a history of going long so in the past the attackers never had a chance to get back so the defenders defended and the attackers attacked.

Hence there was more space and less need for technical ability. With the refereeing changes, better pitches and fitter players that kind of football doesn't work.