England v Croatia

[chicoazul]

Thats cutting.

Bruce: Your turn.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Nah it ends here. I'm not going to say no more on the subject.

 

[chicoazul]

A standoff in the feud.

starts diplomatic relations*

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Hands up who'd laugh if we got snotted 5-0 tomorrow?

Yes thats right, I said 'snotted'.

 

[chicoazul]

lifts both hands, rollercoasterstyle*

 

[Bruce Wayne]

ok, Ronaldo and Zidane both played in sides that were world class and had players who each could step up and make a difference. Beckham plays in a side that is lacking in heroes.

Yes he has market value because of his image, but he's a footballer and that's what he loves above everything else.

Now there was a ball that Beckham played to Yorke against Liverpool in an important game, and I know it was a few years back, but he played the ball first time perfectly on to Yorke's head, it was almost like the ball was in an invisible pipe. I don't know a single player in the Premiership who is English that can do that.

How many English players would step up in the last minute of a game, that by the way he dominated both back and front, and score to send his team into the finals. I don't think there are many.

Personally I believe as an Englishman that if it wasn't for David Beckham, this team would not have qualified for the finals that it reached, and the English folk here should be grateful for his ability in those crunch moments. The fact that he makes shedloads outside of football has nothing to do with his ability and his desire to pull on that England shirt and sweat blood for the cause.

Oh and please Bruce, don't patronise me on Rugby, been watching the game for years, just never really got seriously into it at a fanatical stage. I really am starting to get quite narked over your comments. Its easy to sit there and criticise players, but Wilkinson kicked a world cup winning drop goal under immense pressure in the last seconds against the hosts who happen to be one of the best sides in the world.

If you can do that, then fair enough, but until you do I don't think you can sit there and criticise. Sorry mate, but perhaps you should stick to numbers.

It is incredibly hard to leave Beckham alone but I can't see either of us changing our opinions so we could be here for a very long time without achieving anything.

For the record, I would like to say that both Beckham and Wilkinson are fine players. If anything I am riling against the ridiculous nature of the press and the adulation they heep onto certain sportsmen far too readily, especially when those people are individuals in a team sport.

It dulls the competitive spirit, as shown by the dismal fall off in performance after our rugby and cricket teams had their Trafalgar square moments. It's a trend I don't like and goes along with writing crap biographies after barely any time and any achievements. I'd love our individuals and teams to become dynasties, winning for year after year like the Australians so often do, instead of winning once and spending the next few years cashing in on it. This is why I admire the athletes in our lesser known sports, the likes of the cyclists, the rowers, the sailors who dominate their sports year after year and do so not for the money or glamour but because they simply want to be the best.

 

[Rook]

I've never heard Beckham mentioned as a truly great player like Zidane or Ronaldo or even someone like Henry.

He's a very good player and while he has his deficiences, England needs him because he seems to be the only player who can actually get a goal every now and then.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Can a stat nerd look up Beckhams assists for England?

Would be interesting to see how many of Englands goals come from Beckham when he plays.

Am pretty sure it will be a good amount

 

[CanadaToffee]

In terms of the result England need v Croatia, Beckham's workrate and the way he tracks back defensively are far more relevant than goals and assists - and is probably the reason he'll start as opposed to SWP. If you needed a win, perhaps that would be a different story.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

According to the FA site he has 29 assists.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

It is incredibly hard to leave Beckham alone but I can't see either of us changing our opinions so we could be here for a very long time without achieving anything.

For the record, I would like to say that both Beckham and Wilkinson are fine players. If anything I am riling against the ridiculous nature of the press and the adulation they heep onto certain sportsmen far too readily, especially when those people are individuals in a team sport.

It dulls the competitive spirit, as shown by the dismal fall off in performance after our rugby and cricket teams had their Trafalgar square moments. It's a trend I don't like and goes along with writing crap biographies after barely any time and any achievements. I'd love our individuals and teams to become dynasties, winning for year after year like the Australians so often do, instead of winning once and spending the next few years cashing in on it. This is why I admire the athletes in our lesser known sports, the likes of the cyclists, the rowers, the sailors who dominate their sports year after year and do so not for the money or glamour but because they simply want to be the best.

ok, so the media hype and all the bollocks that surrounds it has strengthened your view. Well fair enough.

I'll leave it, and cheer him on tomorrow.

 

[Rook]

I next England manager should try and "build a team" combining of an experienced middle and young, pacey and skillful players around them.

Imagine what this team could do if they were given time to gel:

Carson
Richards, Terry, Lescott, Baines
Lennon, Hargreaves, Barry, Bentley
Rooney, Vaughan

Subs: Young, Agbonlahor, SWP, Carrick, Walcott

Of course I'm putting EFC players in where I can, but I believe that the team needs to remove Beckham, Gerrard, Owen, Lampard, A. Cole, J. Cole, Robinson, Ferdinand and Neville. They have had their chance and they blew it! The team above is young and in Terry, Hargreaves and Rooney they will have experience in each chain. They could be the backbone for many years.

I would love this watch team. However I think Terry is overrated and his play has dropped off severely since he got $$$$ and Agbonlahor is better than Bentley and should start. That being said I can't think of anyone who could replace Terry (maybe Ledley King if healthy and in form). England should be getting a young team ready and get match experience to hopefully compete with other countries in 2010.

While Beckham is good (Though he has no pace I think he would make a great sub if England is a goal down) guys like Owen, Gerrard, Lampard A. Cole Robinson, Ferdinand and Neville have to go away now. The last thing England needs is more we played like [Poor language removed], buy my book "autobiographies" from this crowd. Owen can be counted on to blow out his knee in by the 30th minute in a match. Ashley Cole is just terrible I think I've seen 1 match that he actually played well in. Never understood how he that best left back in the world title. Gerrard has been crap and should get the same critizism that Lampard gets. Robinson ugh! Has he ever stopped a penalty? Neville is too old now.

The old guard had their chance, they've proved they'll always be counted on to play ugly football and go out on penalites. Its not McClarens fault they play exactly like they did under Erikson did and any time they try anything new it blows up in their face (besides starting Barry). Erikson has proven he's a quality (not great but very good) manager. Its the players who can't get job done.

 

[chicoazul]

You broke the rules of the ceasefire. You just wouldnt let it lie would you?

Bruce: I think he said something about youre a bad nerd or something.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

'tis true, 'tis true

Sounds like I got my wish anyway, Robinson and Beckham dropped. You boys better not let me down now *shakes fist*

 

[Great Dane]

I would love this watch team. However I think Terry is overrated and his play has dropped off severely since he got $$$$ and Agbonlahor is better than Bentley and should start. That being said I can't think of anyone who could replace Terry (maybe Ledley King if healthy and in form). England should be getting a young team ready and get match experience to hopefully compete with other countries in 2010.

While Beckham is good (Though he has no pace I think he would make a great sub if England is a goal down) guys like Owen, Gerrard, Lampard A. Cole Robinson, Ferdinand and Neville have to go away now. The last thing England needs is more we played like [Poor language removed], buy my book "autobiographies" from this crowd. Owen can be counted on to blow out his knee in by the 30th minute in a match. Ashley Cole is just terrible I think I've seen 1 match that he actually played well in. Never understood how he that best left back in the world title. Gerrard has been crap and should get the same critizism that Lampard gets. Robinson ugh! Has he ever stopped a penalty? Neville is too old now.

The old guard had their chance, they've proved they'll always be counted on to play ugly football and go out on penalites. Its not McClarens fault they play exactly like they did under Erikson did and any time they try anything new it blows up in their face (besides starting Barry). Erikson has proven he's a quality (not great but very good) manager. Its the players who can't get job done.

Exactly my point. The old guard have let themselves and the supporters down too many times so give youth a chance.