England

[chicoazul]

I don't even doubt the passion or the will of the players mate, its just that England can't play any sort of possession football on the international stage - which will always land you in trouble. They have some very good players but collectively just look really average when it comes down to the boil.

 

[Goat]

I don't even doubt the passion or the will of the players mate, its just that England can't play any sort of possession football on the international stage - which will always land you in trouble. They have some very good players but collectively just look really average when it comes down to the boil.

Team spirit and a will to win.

The talent is there, for sure, 4-4-2 doesnt help either.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

The 'talent' is ridiculously overrated.

 

[chicoazul]

The 'talent' is ridiculously overrated.

Agreed there like.

 

[Phil Neville Superstar]

Having a few of the big players playing at the same club would help.

Just look at Spain, 7 of yesterday's starting line-up play for Barcelona.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

You look at the succesful teams, such as Holland, the Argentina , Brazil ? & to a lesser extent the Italians, look at how many of their key players play outside their own domestic leages

1. Holland - key players, Sneijder, Robben, De Jong, Van Persie = all based outside their domestic
2.Argentina - Tevez, Messi - Mascherano, Higuian - all outside their domestics..
3.Brazil - Robinho, Fabiano, Kaka, Maicon - again, outside their domestics.


I was at a charity dinner years ago, with Bobby Robson & Stuart Pearce( collymore and Des Walker.. Zzz.. ) - i managed to grab a few words, ( i was smashed ) i asked Bobby what it was like being England Manager & why England perpetually under achieved, he pointed out ( this was around the time Beckham & Owen where at Real, i think.. ) that so many of the influentiual players in the England side never bothered to test them selves out of the so called ' comfort zone ' when in the 70's and 80s, players like Keegan, Lineker & Gazza all went abroad ( he pointed out Ince was at his most potent in the Inter side that won a UEFA, and finished 3rd in Serie A and was offered another contract by Morrati ), granted -England where still poor - but certaintly not to the degree they are now..

Just a thought i remembered..

 

[davek]

You look at the succesful teams, such as Holland, the Argentina , Brazil ? & to a lesser extent the Italians, look at how many of their key players play outside their own domestic leages

1. Holland - key players, Sneijder, Robben, De Jong, Van Persie = all based outside their domestic
2.Argentina - Tevez, Messi - Mascherano, Higuian - all outside their domestics..
3.Brazil - Robinho, Fabiano, Kaka, Maicon - again, outside their domestics.


I was at a charity dinner years ago, with Bobby Robson & Stuart Pearce( collymore and Des Walker.. Zzz.. ) - i managed to grab a few words, ( i was smashed ) i asked Bobby what it was like being England Manager & why England perpetually under achieved, he pointed out ( this was around the time Beckham & Owen where at Real, i think.. ) that so many of the influentiual players in the England side never bothered to test them selves out of the so called ' comfort zone ' when in the 70's and 80s, players like Keegan, Lineker & Gazza all went abroad ( he pointed out Ince was at his most potent in the Inter side that won a UEFA, and finished 3rd in Serie A and was offered another contract by Morrati ), granted -England where still poor - but certaintly not to the degree they are now..

Just a thought i remembered..

Maybe that's a contributory factor. The Euro 96 squad had Ince, Platt and Gazza...and Venables had managed at the highest level abroad. I'm not sure what ingredient they bring back with them for the mix. They were a very good outfit back then. Best England team I've seen. Best team in the tournament, in fact.

 

[Phil Neville Superstar]

You look at the succesful teams, such as Holland, the Argentina , Brazil ? & to a lesser extent the Italians, look at how many of their key players play outside their own domestic leages

1. Holland - key players, Sneijder, Robben, De Jong, Van Persie = all based outside their domestic
2.Argentina - Tevez, Messi - Mascherano, Higuian - all outside their domestics..
3.Brazil - Robinho, Fabiano, Kaka, Maicon - again, outside their domestics.


I was at a charity dinner years ago, with Bobby Robson & Stuart Pearce( collymore and Des Walker.. Zzz.. ) - i managed to grab a few words, ( i was smashed ) i asked Bobby what it was like being England Manager & why England perpetually under achieved, he pointed out ( this was around the time Beckham & Owen where at Real, i think.. ) that so many of the influentiual players in the England side never bothered to test them selves out of the so called ' comfort zone ' when in the 70's and 80s, players like Keegan, Lineker & Gazza all went abroad ( he pointed out Ince was at his most potent in the Inter side that won a UEFA, and finished 3rd in Serie A and was offered another contract by Morrati ), granted -England where still poor - but certaintly not to the degree they are now..

Just a thought i remembered..

Why haven't you included Spain in that list, the WINNERS?

 

[HirsuteBlue]

The England problem is in fact a host of issues, and incredibly varied.
Venables got out with his reputation in tact (to then go to court) but that 96 squad consisted of who. From memory

Seaman
G.Neville Keown Adams Dixon
Beckham Ince Scholes Anderton
Shearer Sheringham​

The current England setup is not built on long term partnerships like those coloured.
England do not play enough full international games for players to get to know one another properly, let alone their respective games.
Managers, Hoddle was chased out because some cretin in the press asked him about his daft non-football related ideas. England played some nice stuff under Hoddle.
Currently the players seem to dislike one another, internal club squabbles about top wage earners. Players shagging around. There is no trust, there is no team. Kevin Phillips made a few points to the media a few years ago about the gambling culture harboured in the England setup and pointed out that players from the smaller clubs like himself at Sunderland were frozen out because of not wanting and not being able to join in. I wonder how much cash has actually been won and lost amongst the England players whilst on duty.
Either expectation falls and a new generation is allowed to be brought together without the media magnifying glass or some maniac with the master plan in the Clough mould is brought in to do it his way or the highway. What helps nothing are papers like (Don't buy) 'the sun', 'the star', 'the mirror' etc.
Oh, and a leaf out of Germany's book by recruiting some sound foreigners into the ranks would be a nice touch. L.Christie is Jamaican. N.Hussein is Indian. Other sports have taken up the best sports stars they can, could we see a Mesut Ozil type break through for England.

 

[Phil Neville Superstar]

The England problem is in fact a host of issues, and incredibly varied.
Venables got out with his reputation in tact (to then go to court) but that 96 squad consisted of who. From memory

Seaman
G.Neville Keown Adams Dixon
Beckham Ince Scholes Anderton
Shearer Sheringham​

.

So would you agree with me by saying that having a few players playing at one club would help England?

 

[davek]

The England problem is in fact a host of issues, and incredibly varied.
Venables got out with his reputation in tact (to then go to court) but that 96 squad consisted of who. From memory

Seaman
G.Neville Keown Adams Dixon
Beckham Ince Scholes Anderton
Shearer Sheringham​

The current England setup is not built on long term partnerships like those coloured.
England do not play enough full international games for players to get to know one another properly, let alone their respective games.
Managers, Hoddle was chased out because some cretin in the press asked him about his daft non-football related ideas. England played some nice stuff under Hoddle.
Currently the players seem to dislike one another, internal club squabbles about top wage earners. Players shagging around. There is no trust, there is no team. Kevin Phillips made a few points to the media a few years ago about the gambling culture harboured in the England setup and pointed out that players from the smaller clubs like himself at Sunderland were frozen out because of not wanting and not being able to join in. I wonder how much cash has actually been won and lost amongst the England players whilst on duty.
Either expectation falls and a new generation is allowed to be brought together without the media magnifying glass or some maniac with the master plan in the Clough mould is brought in to do it his way or the highway. What helps nothing are papers like (Don't buy) 'the sun', 'the star', 'the mirror' etc.
Oh, and a leaf out of Germany's book by recruiting some sound foreigners into the ranks would be a nice touch. L.Christie is Jamaican. N.Hussein is Indian. Other sports have taken up the best sports stars they can, could we see a Mesut Ozil type break through for England.

Couldn't agree more. He knew how he wanted them set up and didn't shirk the big decisions like telling Gazza to sling his hook. The result he got away to Italy to qualify for the 98 WC was a phenomenal achievement. Of course some pencil pusher for one of the posh papers had to go and drop him in the [Poor language removed].

 

[HirsuteBlue]

So would you agree with me by saying that having a few players playing at one club would help England?

Depending on the club, yeah. The last three England managers have all become stuck with the Lampard/Gerrard problem, and none dealt with it. I suspect out of fear of being the manager "responsible" for which evers international retirement. Oddly enough this issue pushed Scholes to the periphery who then retired. So a catch 33 if you like.
Teams are made of partnerships. Ledley King should play with either Woodgate or Dawson. Ferdinand with Brown. Jagielka with Lescott. A.cole with J.Cole. A right side partnership like Becks and Nevs. The goal scorers can be whoever, poachers, pace merchants, big lads, tough lads, clever slower players, play up front and are used to feeding of service - any service. What is not practicle is trying to shoehorn similar players into systems they dont like or playing good players out of position to accomodate lesser players.
Capello (who I want rid of!) could do a lot worse than wielding the axe and targetting youth players with a view to having a settled squad ready for 2014.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Hoddle had players likes Scholes, Beckham and even Sheringham available to him, I think you need these style of players do well in tournaments like the World cup and the Champions League, where there is more onus on possession football and all round intelligence on and off the ball. England don't have it at present, certainly not with the current crop of players, and it does show.

I don't buy the 'lack of passion' criticism that's thrown at them every single time they fail.

 

[Blue Ray]

It's a shameful record really isn't it? England in the WC, that is, and particularly in relation to our continental cousins. Since England's last bit of 'glory'...going out in the SF of Italia 90...we've seen:

Italy win the WC and runners up once

Germany in a final and two semi finals

France champions and losing finalists

Spain Champions

Holland finalists and SF's once

Bulgaria, Croatia, Turkey, Portugal and Sweden all semi finalists.

Even at the European Championships the likes of Denmark and Greece have notched up a trophy since Italia 90..

It's a humiliating record.

What do you expect, Santa Claus at Chrismas time?

 

[MapleLeafEvertonian]

Well this Golden Generation has been a complete failure hasn't it? Scrap it all and start again...seriously. Terry, Gerrard, Lampard, Rio, etc. Get Rodwell, Wilshire, Haart, A Johnson in.