Euro2020 Knock Out Rounds

[Kev The Rat]

They had one ref the whole tournament? That’s a new one.

the italy korea match which was the one in question. the quarter final match vs Spain was also highly suspect.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[Vintage]

OK. Your finger was directed at my comment about how pundits, ex-footballers and inherent cheats, have done their best to normalise and justify cheating among the football going public. My persistant main message is that I detest the cheating. You agree that cheating is bad but for some reason I still don't fathom, chose that particular message, the one you seem to agree with, to give the finger.

I'm not bothered in the slightest by the way, but I'm no less bemused!

Just to make myself clear- I'm not an obvious fan of the England team, though since I was born here my preference was for them to win. I follow Everton only these days and have zero interest in any other club or team. Its sport i enjoy and modern football has distanced itself from sport in my view. On other social media I posted before the game "I hope the least cheaty team wins; I hope the least cheaty team is England."

As it was Italy played the better football after England's traditional mental weakness had allowed them back into the game. For that they may have deserved to win. I'd be the first to congratulate the winning team, but in my view Italy were dirty and cynical on the day )and certainly throughout the tournament) - unnecessarily so. So I won't congratulate that.

Yes, England have their cheats too and I hate them for that. But the foul by Ciellini should not have happened on a sports field and should have been a red for dangerous play, let alone the fact that Sako with his pace was certainly denied at least a clear shot on goal. Again, i won't congratulate any team that wins by unsporting means and never will.

If, in this brave modern new world of clattering angry woke sensibilities my quiet rare sense of honesty and dignity offends or amuses you then it is you that have a problem and is but-hurt by it. I suggest a time of introspection.

Look lad I'm not having a major go at you so don't take the finger emoji to heart. The finger wasn't directed towards the second part of your comment but towards the former part of that comment, "Its what being a cheat looks like" in reference to the Italian team", which you emphasised on multiple posts. I don't care about the pundit part of the comment, that doesn't interest me in the slightest.
I have already explained to you why I gave you the finger emoji so not going repeating myself. I would presume with your " quiet sense of honesty and dignity" you called out England's win against the Danes as cheating with Sterlings dive for the penalty and refused to congratulate or celebrate their victory in the same light as you perceived Italy's win in the final.
If you did then I apologise and accept your opinion on the final. However, if you didn't, I find your opinion contradictory, ironic and yes, very much amusing and in turn a time for introspection for yourself.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Disagree.

The Italy v Spain SF was a cracker and the standout game of the tournamnt between the two best teams.

I didn't rate the Spaniards until the KO phase, but they found a way of playing. They'll be one of the favourites in Qatar.

If they find a reliable goal scorer, they'll be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[chrismpw]

Look lad I'm not having a major go at you so don't take the finger emoji to heart. The finger wasn't directed towards the second part of your comment but towards the former part of that comment, "Its what being a cheat looks like" in reference to the Italian team", which you emphasised on multiple posts. I don't care about the pundit part of the comment, that doesn't interest me in the slightest.
I have already explained to you why I gave you the finger emoji so not going repeating myself. I would presume with your " quiet sense of honesty and dignity" you called out England's win against the Danes as cheating with Sterlings dive for the penalty and refused to congratulate or celebrate their victory in the same light as you perceived Italy's win in the final.
If you did then I apologise and accept your opinion on the final. However, if you didn't, I find your opinion contradictory, ironic and yes, very much amusing and in turn a time for introspection for yourself.

But they ARE cheats and this was a clear indefensible example of cheating that I called out. What's worse the pundits and the italians seem to hero worship Chiellini for it. They invented cheating years ago, in a beautiful game where, in its early days, even defending was considered poor form.

Stirling goes down too easily. I won't defend him. Against Denmark there was clear contact that would unbalance him at speed AND it was one of the rare incidents that was checked by VAR - which unlike in England along with refereeing, does not appear to be used in Europe to rig results.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Fair enough. Spain were unlucky in the semi final. But for all their good approach play they lack a reliable striker. They struggled in their group until the last game against a very poor Slovakia. They needed extra time against Croatia and penalties against a stubborn but average Swiss team. You can't say on the whole that they were the second best team in the competition because they played well against Italy.

I do think you are correct however in saying they will be one to look out for next year. As too will Italy and England and also France provided they change their manager. Half of their best players didn't even make the squad, and there was little sign of togetherness in the ones that did. That group of players won't win the world cup next year but if they refresh it with the younger players coming through they would be strong favourites.

I also believe the English players played under the handicap of poor tactics from the manager. I do think he's the right man for the job because the players obviously like and trust him, and squad togetherness is probably 40/50% of the battle. But he's too negative. You criticised our two midfielders and called them championship players, and I think that was unfair. They are both very good players at what they do but together they make a poor partnership. One of those 2 in a midfield 3 with 2 of Mount, Grealish or Foden would have given England a completely different look that maybe even you would have been impressed by.

Bellingham may be the answer. He's really impressed me every time I've seen him.

Still young though so we'd have to see how he develops and how he'd work within (or help to reshape) the system. As it's surely going to be Southgate's team at the WC.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Sorry for not replying to this earlier Jimmy. I'd forgotten about it tbh.

Yeah. I'm guessing I'm not a lover of a back 3 as it so easily becomes a back 5 when you're playing a good team. Plus I think for it to work offensively you need to have a baller playing in your middle 2, like Kroos for Germany or Jorginho at Chelsea, and as we know Southgate wouldn't do that.

I could understand it working against Germany because he was going like for like and relying on your players winning their man to man battles. As it happens, initially we surprised Italy and we scored one and could possible have had one or 2 more before they got to grips with the system. but the last 20 minutes of the first half and the first 20 minutes of the second half, Italy had us penned back and it was obvious a goal was coming. Southgate should have reverted much earlier to a 433, rather than as a reaction to the goal in my opinion. You can say that's OK with hindsight, but I, and probably many more millions across the country, were shouting just that at the TV from early in the second half.

I thought we gave as good as we got after the change, even though the 2 substitutions we made (Saka and Henderson) were poor, but the system meant we weren't hemmed into our box as we were before.

I'd have to watch the match again as I don't trust my memory a lot of the time. However, I mentioned in an earlier post, my impression was that while Kane was dropping back, we evened up the midfield battle and the wing backs were able to cause them problems. At some point, he pushed up to the number 9 position and not only were we outnumbered in midfield, but Bonucci and Chielini were much more comfortable. Once their midfielders got a grip and were able to involve Chiesa and Insigne more, the back 3 defo became a back 5.

Something possibly happened on the pitch which escaped my attention and my ability to analyse tactics is very limited. I do get the impression that England are more comfortable against the better teams when they set up with the same shape.

 

[Billy Dean]

Bellingham may be the answer. He's really impressed me every time I've seen him.

Still young though so we'd have to see how he develops and how he'd work within (or help to reshape) the system. As it's surely going to be Southgate's team at the WC.

I think a major reason Southgate plays so defensively is we don’t have a midfield capable of outplaying teams

 

[Shevin Keedy]

He’s a good lad isn’t he.
Absolute credit to his family he is.

There was a documentary on BBC this week about race in football, had a good section on with Dom, his Dad and Grandad.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

For me Spain's real coup was Pedri. Looked like a young Iniesta out there.

If Ansu Fati recovers completely from his injury, they'll have even more possibilities of going deep in the WC.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I think a major reason Southgate plays so defensively is we don’t have a midfield capable of outplaying teams

Certainly against the technically gifted sides. The likes of Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Holland, Brazil, Argentina etc would still hog the ball against England..

We've looked better than in the past though because a) technically we have more accomplished players than before and b) we've improved tactically and have more ways of hurting teams.

Most of my life, England have been pretty defensive but Soutgate's definitely drilled a better defensive system into the team.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think a major reason Southgate plays so defensively is we don’t have a midfield capable of outplaying teams

That's his opinion but he's had plenty of opportunities to try it out and he hasn't. Rice holding in a midfield 3 alongside 2 of Bellingham, Mount, Foden, Sancho or Grealish. There's plenty of options there. It may or may not work, but my issue is he's never even tried.