Everton in the city

[PhilM]

Nope. This Español thing needs killing stone dead. Now. Español have never been champions of Spain. Not once. We have been 9 times. Also, Español were not bigger than their city rivals for the first 90 years of football, we were.

Far more analogous is Atlético in Madrid. Great club, proud history who have been beaten by their city rivals in cup finals. They are hugely outnumbered by armchair supporters of Real Madrid but have huge numbers of local fans who go to the match.

Yes we have, but I'm not talking about the past - I'm referring to here and now. I, like many others, have had the pleasure of witnessing Everton being great.

The issue is that a generation of our fans haven't, and sadly I expected at least another to fail to witness it for the foreseeable future. We have a great history...

... but the present and arguably our recently history are far from stellar. For those younger fans, the talk of the 60s, 80s, '95 and whatnot are pretty irrelevant.

Since the FA Cup in '95, Espanyol have won the Copa Del Ray twice and the Super Copa; they have been UEFA Cup runners-up also.

So while it may not be a convenient comparison, I think it's far fairer one right now than saying we're akin to an Atletí and Madrid situation, or even close to it.

Arguably, their (Madrid's) global presence continues to be steady or even grow, whereas we're slipping towards being largely irrelevant in the UK, let alone abroad.

 

[Dr Baxter]

Yes we have, but I'm not talking about the past - I'm referring to here and now. I, like many others, have had the pleasure of witnessing Everton being great.

The issue is that a generation of our fans haven't, and sadly I expected at least another to fail to witness it for the foreseeable future. We have a great history...

... but the present and arguably our recently history are far from stellar. For those younger fans, the talk of the 60s, 80s, '95 and whatnot are pretty irrelevant.

Since the FA Cup in '95, Espanyol have won the Copa Del Ray twice and the Super Copa; they have been UEFA Cup runners-up also.

So while it may not be a convenient comparison, I think it's far fairer one right now than saying we're akin to an Atletí and Madrid situation, or even close to it.

Arguably, their (Madrid's) global presence continues to be steady or even grow, whereas we're slipping towards being largely irrelevant in the UK, let alone abroad.

The issue is this. Likening Everton FC to Español is a Kopite construct. They started putting it out there for consumption and some Evertonians are regurgitating like mugs. We need to shout it down and challenge it. The reasons for that is that they are using it to rewrite history. Don't let them. Do not be bullied into referring to Everton FC in the same light as Español. Be vigilant and stronger than that.

 

[Bedfordblue]

I’ve seen it myself mate. Whenever I’m out in the city centre shopping or around the Merseyside area I see far more kids wearing Liverpool merchandise than Everton, far more. It’s all about mindshare and the more the clubs continues this way or settles on being “fine” the more the mindshare moves away and less mindshare means less market share to grow the club.

It really annoys how some go on about our history but don’t acknowledge the concerns for the future.

Take Melanie Prentice for example, her husband is employed at the club and a man well known to leave a certain horrible ego maniac out of any critical view during his time at the Echo. She defends the people and the culture here at Everton and she also rightly idolises her Grandfather Dixie Dean , who many others idolise too.

What she doesn’t realise is or does but doesn’t care, is who are the potential supporters of the club going to idolise in the future? Where are their heroes going to come from? Because the people like her, her husband and sadly the many others like them , want the status quo to remain at the club, who are incapable of creating such a platform to build teams future generations can worship and if there is a glimmer of a player or two like that, they are sold to balance the books and actually try to win things elsewhere at the highest levels.

How long are we going to look to the Dixie Deans, Southalls, Alan Balls , Sharpy etc for comfort when any remaining future supporters might not have heroes of their own?

It all adds to the collective issues we have.

Sorry for the rant but it grates me how the club has continued to decrease in relevance year after year.

 

[peterw]

As a neutral I think you will always suffer because of the name of the city. When people think of Liverpool they will think of music and football and any visitors will do the beatles tour and then will automatically think of your neighbours when it comes to football. They are a world leading name and one of the biggest clubs on the planet so you will inevitably suffer by comparison. I'd similarly argue (even though its less now) that a tourist coming to Manchester for football will think of Manchester United. In a few years when Man City's success inevitable wanes so will their name and reputation, however Man u's won't. I genuinely think there is little you can do about it because your rivals are just too big, and you suffer because the city will forever be synonymous with them, whatever you try to do.

 

[witchdoc187]

Yes we have, but I'm not talking about the past - I'm referring to here and now. I, like many others, have had the pleasure of witnessing Everton being great.

The issue is that a generation of our fans haven't, and sadly I expected at least another to fail to witness it for the foreseeable future. We have a great history...

... but the present and arguably our recently history are far from stellar. For those younger fans, the talk of the 60s, 80s, '95 and whatnot are pretty irrelevant.

Since the FA Cup in '95, Espanyol have won the Copa Del Ray twice and the Super Copa; they have been UEFA Cup runners-up also.

So while it may not be a convenient comparison, I think it's far fairer one right now than saying we're akin to an Atletí and Madrid situation, or even close to it.

Arguably, their (Madrid's) global presence continues to be steady or even grow, whereas we're slipping towards being largely irrelevant in the UK, let alone abroad.

lol. dont think its arguable. Did you write the second bit 20 years ago? We have been completely irrelevant for years and years.

 

[witchdoc187]

Anyone else sang that thread title to the sound of Marshall Hain’s Dancing in the city? Or do I just need to get back on me meds?

i was going to photoshop the heads of Everton players on the sex and the city cover shot. But don't have the talent. What meds are we on?

 

[chippy1722]

I’m guessing the club has looked at sales at some point, and worked out it would be a waste to sell in too many outlets if they are not selling.
A lot of our grown up fans mock people for wearing the tops too.

 

[Ragnar]

Travelled over to the Wolves match with the Mrs in tow for once, i went the match, she went shopping.

She's no interest in football but one thing stuck with me when i got back to town after the match, she says why is there hardly any mention of Everton in the city centre, of course there's the club shop in Liverpool one and a couple of shops and stalls have dedicated small corners but most nearly seem like an afterthought.

Liverpool FC merchandise seems to be everywhere and I'd say a lot of the overseas tourist's walking about don't even know there's two clubs in the city.

Does the club need to do more to promote the 'brand' in the city or with Liverpool being the size of club it is, would it be banging its head against a closed shop? Have Liverpool fc the city sewn up to casual visitors (tours etc)?
Results need to improve of course to get people to take an interest but a marketing campaign promoting the club to visitors (match day, tours, merch etc) surely isn't a big ask.

Or are we happy to let Liverpool fc have the casual tourists?

Need to think bigger imo.

It’s because Liverpool football club is a tourist destination. Everton football club is the real club of the city. I have mates who go the match and say Anfield is nothing more than Alton Towers these days.

 

[PhilM]

The issue is this. Likening Everton FC to Español is a Kopite construct. They started putting it out there for consumption and some Evertonians are regurgitating like mugs. We need to shout it down and challenge it. The reasons for that is that they are using it to rewrite history. Don't let them. Do not be bullied into referring to Everton FC in the same light as Español. Be vigilant and stronger than that.

How? I didn't pick Espanyol because anyone else chose them - it was a direct reference to the question of similarities between Atletí and Real.

Nobody has forced me, or other, to re-write history or seen in the same light as others. Maybe it's not a perfect comparison, but let's look at why I think it's valid.

Using the comparison of Atletí and Madrid or Barca and Espanyol, which comparison is currently the most valid across a multitude of comparisons?

In terms of current standings within the domestic league, are we closer to Atletí or Espanyol? Sadly, I've got to go the latter as we're sat right at the bottom.

If we looked at our perceived worth/standings over the past few years, I would again go for Espanyol. What about history over the past two decades? Urgh.

How about our perceived significance across the continent of Europe and beyond? I know Atletí are highly regarded across the continent, and sell shirts globally.

Again sadly, we can't put ourselves anywhere near the category - my son has an Atletí kit, not because he's a fan, but it's fashionable, and they're well known.

The only parameter that I would choose the comparison of Atletí is our overall history, as we are historically a big club, yet my argument is that this is dissipating.

I have an adult daughter who has never seen our club be successful, so for me the history element (which we have to be proud of) shouldn't negate here and now.

@witchdoc187 said it perfectly after I tried to have some optimism in my post, as in reality we're only relevant in our minds because for decades we've declined.

If you want to see us as akin to Atletí then that's your prerogative, however I think we need to be more realistic. I want the halcyon days I enjoyed to return...

... but it ain't going to happen soon, and for it to happen we need to recognise the severity of our current position. We need to set realistic short-term goals.

We may not be Espanyol, but shamefully we're far closer to them at the moment than we are Atletí, and to say otherwise makes us look fluffin' stupid.

 

[Dr Baxter]

How? I didn't pick Espanyol because anyone else chose them - it was a direct reference to the question of similarities between Atletí and Real.

Nobody has forced me, or other, to re-write history or seen in the same light as others. Maybe it's not a perfect comparison, but let's look at why I think it's valid.

Using the comparison of Atletí and Madrid or Barca and Espanyol, which comparison is currently the most valid across a multitude of comparisons?

In terms of current standings within the domestic league, are we closer to Atletí or Espanyol? Sadly, I've got to go the latter as we're sat right at the bottom.

If we looked at our perceived worth/standings over the past few years, I would again go for Espanyol. What about history over the past two decades? Urgh.

How about our perceived significance across the continent of Europe and beyond? I know Atletí are highly regarded across the continent, and sell shirts globally.

Again sadly, we can't put ourselves anywhere near the category - my son has an Atletí kit, not because he's a fan, but it's fashionable, and they're well known.

The only parameter that I would choose the comparison of Atletí is our overall history, as we are historically a big club, yet my argument is that this is dissipating.

I have an adult daughter who has never seen our club be successful, so for me the history element (which we have to be proud of) shouldn't negate here and now.

@witchdoc187 said it perfectly after I tried to have some optimism in my post, as in reality we're only relevant in our minds because for decades we've declined.

If you want to see us as akin to Atletí then that's your prerogative, however I think we need to be more realistic. I want the halcyon days I enjoyed to return...

... but it ain't going to happen soon, and for it to happen we need to recognise the severity of our current position. We need to set realistic short-term goals.

We may not be Espanyol, but shamefully we're far closer to them at the moment than we are Atletí, and to say otherwise makes us look fluffin' stupid.

It's boring now. I'll just post this and say no more. If you criticise me for saying Everton aren't Español, in what way are Barcelona and Real Madrid like Liverpool FC? Both of those Spanish giants regularly win the league in their country and have done numerous times over the last 3 decades. Liverpool FC have won one league in 31/32 years, is it? No use telling us how often they used to win it 4 and 5 decades ago.

 

[Bedfordblue]

I’m guessing the club has looked at sales at some point, and worked out it would be a waste to sell in too many outlets if they are not selling.
A lot of our grown up fans mock people for wearing the tops too.

Indeed, but we should still be allowed to be outraged when they aren’t sold everywhere and worn by everyone.
It’s the Everton Way.

 

[PITA]

It's very sad how inept our club's custodians are. We have won the league more times than Chelsea and Spurs combined and yet most people from outside of Liverpool even know that we are a north west club.

I was at Spurs last season and one of their season ticket holders asked me how long the journey from Stoke had been - I'm from Kirkdale!! He thought Everton FC were based near Telford.

Well, I'm sorry but he/she must be as thick as two short planks.

 

[socistep]

Our coach often goes back out to the M62 via the back of the kop, at the Fulham game I was surprised how many RS fans were outside Anfield, especially since we were playing, a lot had been to the club shop and guessing high proportion of tourists

 

[irishblue11]

Something simple like a...
'Welcome to Liverpool, home of Everton football club...the originals' banner/billboard in the city centre.

Literature/ posters in every hotel foyer, shops etc advertising tours/ buses to goodison, matches, Bramley Moore information, history of the club.

It's not hard to do a wee bit more, we'll obviously never compete at the minute with Liverpool FC for merchandise sales etc but at same time don't give them an easy ride either, make them work, give Everton a presence.

 

[Quim]

Just turn up at a kids party or training session to see what Kenwrights 30 years have done to this club. Destroyed us