Everton January 2022 Transfer Thread

[PhilM]

Unfortunately said donkey refuses to move and wants to sit on his arse and collect his wedge.

Which I suspect, taking away the footballing element, most people would do. We offered him the wages, so we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[Zatara]

There appears to a myth spreading that championship players aren’t cheap

You can still find decent players for a relatively risk free price

Palace signed this fella for only 8 mil last summer and he was the young player of the season in the championship

Michael Olise: Crystal Palace complete signing of Reading forward - BBC Sport

Crystal Palace complete the signing of Reading forward Michael Olise for £8m.

www.bbc.com

Release clauss in his contract.

Does that charge his point?

Well, yes.

If Olise didnt have a release clause at £8mil then he would be valued at around double that figure.

If Carvalho's contract wasnt running out then the fee would be at least triple the £5mil he was available for.

Brennan Johnson at Forest is a highly rated young player and they rejected £18mil from Brentford for him.

@Simon Buttle mentioned Lewis-Potter at Hull and that apparently theyre looking for £25-30mil for him.

So, while there are good deals to be found in the lower leagues (like Branthwaite in league 2) the fees arent particularly cheap thesedays.

I could argue that the Chelsea youth players are a better hunting ground when weve seen Livramento £5mil and Lamptey £1.5mil tearing up the premier league.

 

[TheBigIguana]

While I'm not disagreeing, I think the wider issue is that we offered wages above and beyond what the player's ability, potential or longevity was was truly worth.

We're not able to attract the top bracket of players so we were never in contention for them, but we've blown other clubs out the water with what we've paid.

Unfortunately, this system doesn't work if the players you get aren't up to scratch - e.g. Tosun on circa £100k per week. It boils down to value for money.

The problem is all you can get for 100k a week is high level younger players, on the way down but still decent older ones, or players in their prime that are pretty average. We tried to jump the line and buy in their prime players with wages that only attracted the average ones. There was no possible way to fix that aside from being more patient and buying younger or paying more. Cent Tosun was individually a bad signing but also a sign of a completely broken process.

 

[Simon Buttle]

Well, yes.

If Olise didnt have a release clause at £8mil then he would be valued at around double that figure.

If Carvalho's contract wasnt running out then the fee would be at least triple the £5mil he was available for.

Brennan Johnson at Forest is a highly rated young player and they rejected £18mil from Brentford for him.

@Simon Buttle mentioned Lewis-Potter at Hull and that apparently theyre looking for £25-30mil for him.

So, while there are good deals to be found in the lower leagues (like Branthwaite in league 2) the fees arent particularly cheap thesedays.

I could argue that the Chelsea youth players are a better hunting ground when weve seen Livramento £5mil and Lamptey £1.5mil tearing up the premier league.

I have said before that I watch a lot of the championship and I could probably pick a player or two from most of the teams that are worth a look, and all under the age of 24 as well, but god knows what some of them would cost as clubs are getting wise to the value these days.

 

[Lanolin]

Does that charge his point?

It does to an extent because it means the price they paid isn't indicative of the market value, which is what we're really talking about. Olise wasn't cheap because he was bought from the Championship, he was cheap because his contract had a release clause in it. Most good players in the Championship won't have similar clauses, and so most players in the Championship won't be cheap.

 

[tommytowne]

I have said before that I watch a lot of the championship and I could probably pick a player or two from most of the teams that are worth a look, and all under the age of 24 as well, but god knows what some of them would cost as clubs are getting wise to the value these days.

One that I was banging on about was Jarrod Bowen. He was by far the best of Hull City's squad and was performing well above Championship level for eighteen months.

 

[TheBigIguana]

If you want cheap talent a decent idea is to just poach players ready to play off of the built up youth systems like Chelsea and the Red Bull cartel. I mean Southampton and Palace both have found some of their best players at Chelsea and they are all likely to get better too. We've also done this in the past but I guess we decided we were too good for it now.

 

[Lanolin]

The problem is all you can get for 100k a week is high level younger players, on the way down but still decent older ones, or players in their prime that are pretty average. We tried to jump the line and buy in their prime players with wages that only attracted the average ones. There was no possible way to fix that aside from being more patient and buying younger or paying more. Cent Tosun was individually a bad signing but also a sign of a completely broken process.

A big part of the problem was that we just allowed ourselves to be fleeced. It was like we wanted to be seen throwing money around and so gave people contracts way in excess of what was necessary. I don't believe for a second that Tosun wouldn't have come here for considerably less than we offered him, it's like we just didn't negotiate at all. We probably trebled his wage to give him a move he'd have given his right arm for anyway, it's madness. He's just one example, there are loads of players we've done it with, both in terms of signings and extensions.

It's like the old story of Seth Johnson going to Leeds and his agent telling him not to say a word because he wasn't going to accept a penny less than 20k a week, and Ridsdale opening with an offer of 40.

 

[Zatara]

A big part of the problem was that we just allowed ourselves to be fleeced. It was like we wanted to be seen throwing money around and so gave people contracts way in excess of what was necessary. I don't believe for a second that Tosun wouldn't have come here for considerably less than we offered him, it's like we just didn't negotiate at all. We probably trebled his wage to give him a move he'd have given his right arm for anyway, it's madness. He's just one example, there are loads of players we've done it with, both in terms of signings and extensions.

It's like the old story of Seth Johnson going to Leeds and his agent telling him not to say a word because he wasn't going to accept a penny less than 20k a week, and Ridsdale opening with an offer of 40.

I think the opening offer was £35k (ish) and then Johnson and the agent were open mouthed...so Ridsdale took it the wrong way and assumed they were shocked as it was so low...

...instantly increased the offer to £55k.

 

[TheBigIguana]

A big part of the problem was that we just allowed ourselves to be fleeced. It was like we wanted to be seen throwing money around and so gave people contracts way in excess of what was necessary. I don't believe for a second that Tosun wouldn't have come here for considerably less than we offered him, it's like we just didn't negotiate at all. We probably trebled his wage to give him a move he'd have given his right arm for anyway, it's madness. He's just one example, there are loads of players we've done it with, both in terms of signings and extensions.

It's like the old story of Seth Johnson going to Leeds and his agent telling him not to say a word because he wasn't going to accept a penny less than 20k a week, and Ridsdale opening with an offer of 40.

Yeah we were terrible with how we tried to accelerate our wage scale. We did need to try and move up but throwing money at garbage isn't it.

 

[riddick]

It does to an extent because it means the price they paid isn't indicative of the market value, which is what we're really talking about. Olise wasn't cheap because he was bought from the Championship, he was cheap because his contract had a release clause in it. Most good players in the Championship won't have similar clauses, and so most players in the Championship won't be cheap.

Market value isn't the same thing tho. Palace paid 8m for a player who should have cost more. Ie: value.


*edit* but I do get your points and acknowledge them. West Ham signed that lad from the Championship and he was about 30m.

 

[Nymzee]

If you want cheap talent a decent idea is to just poach players ready to play off of the built up youth systems like Chelsea and the Red Bull cartel. I mean Southampton and Palace both have found some of their best players at Chelsea and they are all likely to get better too. We've also done this in the past but I guess we decided we were too good for it now.

Guehi wasn't cheap and Gallagher is only on loan but I understand your point.

 

[Hogwild]

If its a choice of:

A: Donkeys staying at the club

B: Donkeys going to Turkey on loan where they pay a % of the salary

C: Donkeys being sold to Turkish clubs and we give them a pay off to leave.

Which do you choose?

Honestly C. Either way we are paying them and at least this way they are gone and not in the dressing room.

Obviously you can't do this for all, but for the ones with 6 months left like Tosun....get rid.

 

[Azza]

KLAXON ALERT!

 

[Lanolin]

Market value isn't the same thing tho. Palace paid 8m for a player who should have cost more. Ie: value.

No, he was replying to a post which said:

"There appears to a myth spreading that championship players aren’t cheap".

The clear inference there is that Championship players in general are cheap, but the example he gives to back it up was only cheap because he had a release clause. It's like using Gana as an example to show that PL players are cheap, it's not typical of the market and so doesn't work as an example.