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That's abundantly clear at this point given we're getting Allardyce. The definition of waving the white flag.
MikeH72
Player Valuation: £100m
"Waving the white flag" would be accepting relegation by appointing Unsworth. We have to stay up. Reassess where we are in the summer.
Allardyce or Unsworth aren't (or shouldn't) be the only two choices here.
I don't see the point of staying up if you're just content to stay up. That's what Allardyce represents - all ethics, dignity and ambition out the window to tread water and desperately stay at the Premier League dinner table.
Everton are giving a job to this mess. Just let that sink in and consider the bigger picture. It's a disaster.
..it seems to me that Everton have targets we prefer but can’t acquire them at this point. We simply can’t afford to wait any longer, we can’t afford to wait until the end of the season when he will be available. The club have backed themselves into a corner and have to do something or the inevitable will happen.
People talk about the bigger picture and long-term. Unless we change now the bigger picture and long-term are not worth thinking about. Call it panic but something has to be done now. Allardyce will simply be a solution to keep us in the Premier League. Nothing more. I doubt the club are thinking too much beyond May 2018.
By the way, I doubt it’s an absolute given he will say yes. These blokes are full of ego. I dare say we’ll be paying at least 10% more than when we spoke with him 5 weeks ago.
People talk about the bigger picture and long-term. Unless we change now the bigger picture and long-term are not worth thinking about. Call it panic but something has to be done now. Allardyce will simply be a solution to keep us in the Premier League. Nothing more. I doubt the club are thinking too much beyond May 2018.
By the way, I doubt it’s an absolute given he will say yes. These blokes are full of ego. I dare say we’ll be paying at least 10% more than when we spoke with him 5 weeks ago.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Question mate, what invariably happens when a sporting institution - or football club only thinks about the short term fix?
From my experience, what happens is a short term fix causes more problems afterwards, requires another short term fix, cycle repeats until the club can no longer be 'saved' by a short term fix anymore then it goes under, Sunderland, Leeds, Blackburn, Newcastle all clubs who did the short term fix approach and ultimately collapsed due to it
Right at this moment we are an obvious club in disarray and damaged, BUT we still have at least an outward sign of wishing to be ambitious which can be used to sell the longer term prospect to a manager etc, we go down this route (and ignoring even the damage Allardyce will do to the club in terms of saddling us with short term fix players on long contracts and big wages) and to every prospective manager we have shown exactly what the clubs 'REAL' ambition is - which is to merely survive at all costs in the league.
The likes of Silva, Fonseca etc won't touch us after this appointment with a shitty stick, and we will be on the merry go round of the retread English managers, the likes of Pardew, Hodgson, Allardyce, Pullis, Hughes etc will be the future ones we will see come to this club.
Case in point - just look what happened to the last two clubs that hired Allardyce - West Ham went for Bilic next - got rid and then went straight back to the safety net of Moyes, Palace went for De Boer - within 4 games they went for a safety net of Hodgson, it becomes a mindset with a club, we may well indeed try to hire some foreign manager - the best won't come though as they would see the writing on the wall, we may indeed get some one in - but at the first sign of a struggle we will sack them and go for the same method of a Pullis, Pardew - short term fix.
Ultimately and it's not over stating this, hiring Allardyce will be the line in the sand which pretty much guarantees we are indeed the 'small club' that Benitez once called us.
Kev The Rat
Player Valuation: £70m
This is very much 50/50 now. Maybe 40/60 or even 30/70. Sam is a mercenary yes, but he also doesn’t actually need the money he has on several occasions claimed he’d be happy to retire now. We’ve mugged him off once already. He may not take kindly to being approached again. But there are no other options.
I actually think in the betting stakes Unsworth at 25s has some value as he only needs 10 games to get the payout. A win against WHU would probably buy him some more time seeing how desperate the board are to keep him in post.
I actually think in the betting stakes Unsworth at 25s has some value as he only needs 10 games to get the payout. A win against WHU would probably buy him some more time seeing how desperate the board are to keep him in post.
tungetango
Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?
4
I have no idea. Mist likely frustration
Gareth Gibson
Player Valuation: £8m
Totally agree. In appointing Allardyce, a former England manager who got Bolton into the top 6 and who has never been relegated in 20 years of management, we are at least taking a step in the right direction.
At the moment we are a club in freefall and Big Sam has a knack for stabilising such clubs.
He's not Simeone, but he's a better bet than the likes of Dyche, Silva and Moyes, all of whom have been relegated.
MikeH72
Player Valuation: £100m
But we have to be just content to stay up this season. What else can we realistically do with this team? I don't think anyone is thinking of Allardyce as the man to take us forward long term, not even the board. This situation we're in this season requires a specific set of skills. Forget about the bigger picture, or any sort of "project". It's all on hold for the time being.
...it’s a mess, Ste, and it’s a mess of their own doing. I know history points to short-termism being the road to disaster. I know history suggest clubs who appoint Allardyce slip into ruin after he leaves. Unfortunately, the club are having to think short-term because they have no wiggle room to wait for preferred targets. We are where we are.
I hope we are a little different than the clubs Allardyce has previously got out of jail, though. The Boardroom shenanigans might see us fall away, but the club are potentially looking upwards from an infrastructure perspective. The likes of Sunderland had a hand to mouth existence. I think our status is different. We are in a dreadful place but I do think there’s hope.
Everyone talks about choices but who are they? It’s ok mentioning names but they may have turned us down. Unfortunately we have to go through directors of clubs and as we’ve seen with Watford they will dig in. Also, we aren’t a big enough draw for some like Silva to resign and risk all that comes with it.
I down want this character and I agree with most of the above but I also think he won’t have been on the original list.
I down want this character and I agree with most of the above but I also think he won’t have been on the original list.
Embarrassing. Beyond belief
MikeH72
Player Valuation: £100m
People need to stop deluding themselves with this "sleeping giant is awakening" thing from the summer. Ronald Koeman and Steve Walsh between them have seen off any "project" or long term building that might have been going on. People won't want to accept it, but we are very, very poor right now, and one thing undeniably more disastrous than appointing this meme as manager, would be heading to the Championship with a load of brand new players on massive contracts and a stadium move hanging in the balance.
smileychap
Player Valuation: £8m
1. Bolton
Alladyce got Bolton into Europe with the likes of Okocha, Diouf, the dude from Madrid, Djorkaeff and of course, Gary Speed. With those guys it wasn't kick n run. They were decent in Sam's last seasons, and it was the clubs underlying shaky finances low gate receipts etc that weren't sustainable. He should not have had so much money, but he spent successfully.
Everton have the money and the fans.
2. Others,
Geordies didn't like him, but collapsed without him, after giving him no time. West Ham up, Blackburn safe etc. How can he do better than survival with that lot? ( and he did better than survival )
Hodgson is starting to make gains using a largely unchanged Palace squad ( I'd have Sakho in our back four tomorrow ) and his only falling for England was giving honest, private views in a fake interview. He won his 1 game in charge.
3. Everton
Give the guy a chance. I wanted Unsworth to have a crack at things, but he's too green, poor tactics and dire defence (which I thought he'd tighten). Mostly I don't feel he's developed a good touchline presence yet ( lots of head shaking ). More time yes, now maybe not.
4. Targets
Could Everton be the club to tarnish Sam's record? Maybe. But this squad with this attitude I felt for the first time is relegation material on form vs teams around us. We must stay up.
Walsh, kenwright, Elstone, go. Wasted millions. Moshiri is delivering cash and a ground and a project that will be incredible for the city. We must stay up to realise that.
I'd give Alladyce a run
Alladyce got Bolton into Europe with the likes of Okocha, Diouf, the dude from Madrid, Djorkaeff and of course, Gary Speed. With those guys it wasn't kick n run. They were decent in Sam's last seasons, and it was the clubs underlying shaky finances low gate receipts etc that weren't sustainable. He should not have had so much money, but he spent successfully.
Everton have the money and the fans.
2. Others,
Geordies didn't like him, but collapsed without him, after giving him no time. West Ham up, Blackburn safe etc. How can he do better than survival with that lot? ( and he did better than survival )
Hodgson is starting to make gains using a largely unchanged Palace squad ( I'd have Sakho in our back four tomorrow ) and his only falling for England was giving honest, private views in a fake interview. He won his 1 game in charge.
3. Everton
Give the guy a chance. I wanted Unsworth to have a crack at things, but he's too green, poor tactics and dire defence (which I thought he'd tighten). Mostly I don't feel he's developed a good touchline presence yet ( lots of head shaking ). More time yes, now maybe not.
4. Targets
Could Everton be the club to tarnish Sam's record? Maybe. But this squad with this attitude I felt for the first time is relegation material on form vs teams around us. We must stay up.
Walsh, kenwright, Elstone, go. Wasted millions. Moshiri is delivering cash and a ground and a project that will be incredible for the city. We must stay up to realise that.
I'd give Alladyce a run
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