Everton Supporters Trust Safe Standing Survey

[Boss_Blue]

Well this is where some Evertonians need to wise up. An obsession over what they can and cannot do at the match like an insecure virgin.

Agree to an extent - maybe reign in the vitriol though.

Fans need to stop making associations with safe standing/standing areas/singing areas/section all those different names for what is essentially an Everton away end at Goodison, with “thought of a section of blues singing along to a brass band, waving flags and dancing while we are being dry bummed three - nil by Stoke”.

I would love to see a standing area but would ignore any efforts to stage manage the atmosphere. Having the two things differentiated I believe is important to keep fans on board with the idea.

How you stop fans making those associations I have no idea, in fact it’s easy to just laugh at them and take the piss.

I'm confused by this. Obviously you stop those associations by calling it a standing area, re-assure those who fear it would be introduced to manufacture an atmosphere and then ignore the meffs who offer nothing to the debate.

As an aside you appear to have become angry very quickly when discussing this topic - is everything okay mate?

 

[Steam Engine]

Agree to an extent - maybe reign in the vitriol though.


I would love to see a standing area but would ignore any efforts to stage manage the atmosphere. Having the two things differentiated I believe is important to keep fans on board with the idea.


I'm confused by this. Obviously you stop those associations by calling it a standing area, re-assure those who fear it would be introduced to manufacture an atmosphere and then ignore the meffs who offer nothing to the debate.

As an aside you appear to have become angry very quickly when discussing this topic - is everything okay mate?

Over the years you see a lot of good Evertonians getting kicked out of the ground, 3 year bans that can affect peoples livelihoods just for supporting Everton in the way they choose. I've been kicked out a couple of times myself but been lucky to avoid bans. Fans have tried to sort it out...well as we spoke about earlier.

They did call it a standing area to begin with to avoid the manufacturing association but that had opposition from fans, and the club can't be seen to back it as it is against Premier league rules. It does seem to be all about the name though. Peoples front of Judea all over again.

Bit of a side step here manufacturing an atmosphere seems to be a phrase used now for anyone creating an atmosphere. The extremes are obvious but where is the line drawn between the two?

 

[Boss_Blue]

Bit of a side step here manufacturing an atmosphere seems to be a phrase used now for anyone creating an atmosphere. The extremes are obvious but where is the line drawn between the two?

In my opinion - manufactured:

Not manufactured:

 

[Boss_Blue]

3 year bans that can affect peoples livelihoods just for supporting Everton in the way they choose

Has the hotdog seller been banned for standing??

 

[Steam Engine]

Has the hotdog seller been banned for standing??

You've reminded me of Larry Lime Street there but he's a thread on his own him!

 

[Steam Engine]

In my opinion - manufactured:

Not manufactured:

I don't disagree, with Dortmund, I've not been but I'm sure that's started by a megaphone at the front? I might be wrong but have no idea if it has a positive or negative effect.

Everton are crying out for a big group of lads whose seats are together to get bladdered before the match and go in and sing their hearts out. Everyone around them would join in then.

I think the way ticket availability is fans are going in the ground next to smaller groups of mates in 2, 3s and 4s. If there was a group of fans who went in double or treble that figure they'd be louder and more boisterous for other fans to latch on to.

 

[Boss_Blue]

I don't disagree, with Dortmund, I've not been but I'm sure that's started by a megaphone at the front? I might be wrong but have no idea if it has a positive or negative effect.

This is boss:



This is not:

 

[Steam Engine]

This is boss:



This is not:

I'm in work so won't be able to see that, but chatting to you has wasted a good few hours! I can see the picture on the first though and it looks outside rather than in the ground so not sure if there's a youtube vid of them in the ground and if they use a megaphone there. I'm not suggesting we use a megaphone by the way though I would have been interested to see how the Everton megaphone lad got on if he went to the back of the Gwladys Street.

 

[Boss_Blue]

I'm in work so won't be able to see that, but chatting to you has wasted a good few hours! I can see the picture on the first though and it looks outside rather than in the ground so not sure if there's a youtube vid of them in the ground and if they use a megaphone there. I'm not suggesting we use a megaphone by the way though I would have been interested to see how the Everton megaphone lad got on if he went to the back of the Gwladys Street.

Suppose the point that I'm trying to make is that if it feels forced then Evertonians won't go for it.

To your point about the back of the Gwladys - a group of young lads who have been on the ale all day giving it loads on a megaphone might go down alright in the right circumstances. One random fella on his own at the front was doomed to fail from the off. Dortmund clearly have a culture that the fans buy into (the above video was taken during their champions league game at City a while back) which isn't restricted to their stadium - we have a different culture which will be difficult to influence in the way you are advocating.

Tl;dr - quickest way to get the atmosphere back = Everton stop being shyte FFS

 

[everton2004]

This is not:

That megaphone would have been inserted somewhere the sun don't shine if that was anywhere near my seat

 

[Boss_Blue]

That megaphone would have been inserted somewhere the sun don't shine if that was anywhere near my seat

I couldn't stop laughing at the utter indifference of the fans around him.

Respect the fact he didn't give up all match but from where I sit I thought somebody had a jarg ringtone going off until I spotted the plum later in the game...

 

[Steam Engine]

Suppose the point that I'm trying to make is that if it feels forced then Evertonians won't go for it.

To your point about the back of the Gwladys - a group of young lads who have been on the ale all day giving it loads on a megaphone might go down alright in the right circumstances. One random fella on his own at the front was doomed to fail from the off. Dortmund clearly have a culture that the fans buy into (the above video was taken during their champions league game at City a while back) which isn't restricted to their stadium - we have a different culture which will be difficult to influence in the way you are advocating.

Tl;dr - quickest way to get the atmosphere back = Everton stop being shyte FFS

I wouldn't say I'm advocating a megaphone and doing it that way. Maybe intrigued to see if the lad done it properly how it would have got on over here, but either way it certainly wasn't the reason for my posts it was more of a sidetrack.

The fan mentality has changed at Everton brought on by the seats same as others. Short simple version is as we didn't really react by creating our own standing area meaning we went from a noisy Gwladys Street to a quiet Gwladys Street.

New fans gradually come along year on year didn't know any different than a quiet Goodison so justified it, instead of challenging it, because they knew no different. The quieter subdued way then perpetuates itself into an Everton culture.

Hopefully though some fans are interested in the old school way of singing themselves hoarse. "We only sing when we're losing" being the old Everton chant that typifies the opposite mentality.

I'm going home soon so may not get to reply you'll be glad to hear! I think we both want similar, a standing area. We're probably too hung up on the name but the name unfortunately makes or breaks it for our fans.

 

[summerisle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38411627


Man Utd fans asked about safe standing at Old Trafford


By Simon Stone

BBC Sport

Old Trafford is the UK's biggest club stadium with a capacity of 75,635
Manchester United have asked fans whether they want standing back at Old Trafford if it was made legal.

Premier League clubs recently held initial talks on the possibility of introducing safe standing at grounds.

Top flight and Championship stadiums have had to be all-seater since terraces were outlawed in the aftermath of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.

Safe-standing areas, featuring retractable seats, are used at Celtic and abroad, notably in Germany.

Premier League chiefs have acknowledged a "softening" around the topic of standing clubs, with an improved atmosphere cited as one of the benefits, and clubs have agreed to hold further talks in the new year.

But some clubs - including Everton - are against it and it would need government legislation to change if safe standing was introduced at stadiums in England.

United contacted season-ticket holders on Thursday and included the question in a 20-point survey.

Supporters were asked for the three areas of Old Trafford - the biggest club ground in the UK, with a capacity of 75,635 - that they would prefer standing to be introduced.

It is believed to be the first time a Premier League club has surveyed its fans about the idea of bringing standing back to English grounds.

Jon Darch, who runs the Safe Standing Roadshow, which promotes the use of rail seats, said: "I am sure that the level of interest will be huge and look forward both to hearing the results and to seeing other Premier League clubs follow suit and ask their fans if they would also like to be formally allowed to stand at games in dedicated areas of rail seating, specifically designed for safe standing."

The Hillsborough disaster in 1989 resulted in the deaths of 96 Liverpool fans following crushing on the terraces.

There have been no standing areas at Old Trafford since 1994.

Senior United officials went to Celtic Park in October to inspect the 4,000-capacity rail seating that has been used at Scotland's biggest club ground since July.

While many fans have championed the cause of safe standing, it has strong opposition from the Hillsborough Support Group who, last month, said the return of standing would be a "backward step".

 

[The Cowboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38411627


Man Utd fans asked about safe standing at Old Trafford


By Simon Stone

BBC Sport

Old Trafford is the UK's biggest club stadium with a capacity of 75,635
Manchester United have asked fans whether they want standing back at Old Trafford if it was made legal.

Premier League clubs recently held initial talks on the possibility of introducing safe standing at grounds.

Top flight and Championship stadiums have had to be all-seater since terraces were outlawed in the aftermath of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.

Safe-standing areas, featuring retractable seats, are used at Celtic and abroad, notably in Germany.

Premier League chiefs have acknowledged a "softening" around the topic of standing clubs, with an improved atmosphere cited as one of the benefits, and clubs have agreed to hold further talks in the new year.

But some clubs - including Everton - are against it and it would need government legislation to change if safe standing was introduced at stadiums in England.

United contacted season-ticket holders on Thursday and included the question in a 20-point survey.

Supporters were asked for the three areas of Old Trafford - the biggest club ground in the UK, with a capacity of 75,635 - that they would prefer standing to be introduced.

It is believed to be the first time a Premier League club has surveyed its fans about the idea of bringing standing back to English grounds.

Jon Darch, who runs the Safe Standing Roadshow, which promotes the use of rail seats, said: "I am sure that the level of interest will be huge and look forward both to hearing the results and to seeing other Premier League clubs follow suit and ask their fans if they would also like to be formally allowed to stand at games in dedicated areas of rail seating, specifically designed for safe standing."

The Hillsborough disaster in 1989 resulted in the deaths of 96 Liverpool fans following crushing on the terraces.

There have been no standing areas at Old Trafford since 1994.

Senior United officials went to Celtic Park in October to inspect the 4,000-capacity rail seating that has been used at Scotland's biggest club ground since July.

While many fans have championed the cause of safe standing, it has strong opposition from the Hillsborough Support Group who, last month, said the return of standing would be a "backward step".

No doubt the Hillsborough Support Group will see this as explicit antagonism from Utd, rather than a perfectly acceptable feasibility study for something that totally isn't terracing.