Everton Transfer Thread - Summer 2020

[catcherintherye]

True. But poch got spurs into the champions league for a few seasons and to a champions league final. We appointed Marco Silva....
Edit. Koeman originally which was less of a gamble but still not top class.
But not to learn from that mistake was most disappointing

I think though, to some degree it's hard to just appoint a top manager. At first they are very cautious. It normally takes having a DOF in place, who is competent for some time, plus evidence of money being spent to get the manager you want. We tried for Carlo in 2017 when Koeman left and it didn't work. I suspect a lot of that will have been down to Walsh being at the club and not Brands.

We've also all seen owners throw money at it for a year or 2 and then give up and bail out. It's almost as if the top managers want to see a longer term commitments evidenced before moving.

 

[Zatara]

In truth the answer would likely be no. The question I suppose would be, how far can we press Napoli down on price. And 2) to what extent do we see Ancelotti having an influence on transfer targets.

A player with Koulibaly's ability, mental attributes, leadership, reading of the game etc (as well as his power) will be able to be a perfectly competent centre half well into his mid 30 and perhaps beyond. If you view him as you might say an upgraded Distin they may well take the view it's worth spending the money and writing it off so to speak. I would go to £40m late in the window and depending on how far finances bite, you may get a deal at that point. You would also, theoretically help develop, Holgate, Mina, Gibson (and maybe one of Todibo/Gabriel/Kumbula etc) if he comes in. Not just off the pitch, but also on it in making the look better players. Much like LIverpool's Cb's next to Van Dijk, almost overnight went from being shaky to world beaters.

Yes I agree re Kenny and body type. I am not reading an enormous amount into these games. I've seen enough of Kenny to know strengths and weaknesses. I am not his biggest fan, but I am quite comfortable with him being a starting right back next season, if it allows us to focus in other areas.

I would tend to agree. Certainly City would benefit too, possibly Wolves (although some rumours their Chinese owners have been understandably hit by this virus more than most). It would essentially move away any problems we have re profitability for a bit. I think best case for us would be it's suspended for a couple of years, slate is wiped clean, and we can buy heavily and then be quite well set once it's back.

Ive wanted him since we were first linked when moshiri took over.

But if it was me id go for Gabriel + Emerson and others of the u23 age bracket to build a long term squad.

Once we have that in place then we can add in 3 superstars with experience to suit whats missing.

 

[Zatara]

Of course they can, he is there player but nobody is going to give them £80m for Grealish, that is just utter madness.

Nobody is paying that. They would do well to get half of that in the coming market. As long as they don't get relegated though, my suspicion is they sit on the asset. He has 3 years on a deal.

United would pay it

 

[Saint Domingo]

Agreed on both City and Chelsea mate, it took them about three seasons via a few non successful transfer targets to really get sustained success, i think things were that little bit easier given the CL spots were that bit more fluid. FFP was less applicable to.

I think initially its a race to raise the quality of the base line squad, a number of mistakes are always made in that as it a lot of spots to improve. Maybe about 50% are long term keepers, then you are chipping away on loosing three, bringing in three, thats the enviable position we need to get to. The investment wains over time due to need, but also refined and focused recruitment and hoovering up the best underage talent, an area Chelsea and CIty have excelled, their issue is finding the balance between buying and giving youth its fling.

Personally i wouldn't be a confirmed Brands accolite, im open minded and far from dismissive on his value, but i look at recruitment year 1 as very good, less so last year. I happen to believe Silva had the telling impacts on Gomes and Richarlisons recruitments, ive no way of proving it just an opinion is all. Id balance the Brands criticism of walking into a poor a squad, with a lot of work to be done, which is tricky, i do feel he could have moved more of the dead wood to enable progress. What has also been difficult for him is the academy ban, thankfully that ends this year and we will finally see how well his structures work with recruiting underage. Like i say im open minded and would allow some lee way as a work in progress. But i do feel people over rate his impact here.

When you look at Newcastle, if the investment as the rumors seem to suggest will be a big investment, you can see them making statement signings, 50% will fit, 50% wont and they are two/three years of maybe really getting to spot were they can attack the EL/CL spots, presuming things go as well as they can. FFP of course will be an issue they will hit as well. I dont see them really troubling anyone for a couple of years, it will take a while to turn it around there. You could stick Mbappe into that squad and he wouldnt make much of a difference at the moment or in the short term, its a big job of work improving that squad and you will see the manager merry go around as well. To much change in the short term is never a good recipe in my opion in football. Fans wont mind in the short terms they will be sated by the prospect of hope and progress, they've been devoid of it for so long up there, even making one big signing to play alongside Dwight Gayle, would make their season. It will be a while before they are attacking the European places in my opinion.

It will be interesting to see how the pack respond though, Wolves, Leicester and ourselves are in that little chasing group behind the CL spots, will this new money raise the bar for us to compete with an additional increased investment. Be interesting.

what was most annoying for us is that Chelsea already had a good team, then Abramovich’s millions came along and within one or two windows they were ready to challenge for the title. It also helped they had Terry and Lampard on the books already, probably two of their greatest ever players.

City didn’t have a great team so they bought top premier league players from outside the top teams to build their base from: Bellamy, Lescott, Wayne Bridge, Shay Given, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Barry, Milner. Then they got to a level where they could add class like Silva Toure Aguero which moves them to league winning level.

We tried to do the same, we poached the players who had been doing well in the premier league from the teams below us. Bolaise Williams Siggurdson Schneiderlin Gueye but sadly (Gueye aside) they just completely downed tools and larked about with an unbelievable level of i professionalism. Williams barely looked fit when playing for us, Bolaise got injured and the other two are two of the biggest free loading clowns to ever pull our shirt on. We should have been where City were when they were challenging for fourth spot at the end of the Hughes period. Instead we got set back about three years and progress in the Moshiri era basically only started from the moment Brands came in and that first window where finally players like Richarlison Digne and Mina came in and actually improved the squad rather Than adding to the layabout lads on tour culture we had before.

Last season was disappointing because all the injuries and Silva’s firing made it a false start but I’m hoping next season with Ancelotti, some more good signings and the likes of Gbamin and Gomes hopefully staying fit means we can really kick in and crate a base from which to climb higher again.

 

[Eggs]

I wonder will they make the same mistakes we did - new money always seems to.

....yep, it’s because players are being bought without a team foundation. It’s obviously much easier building from a position of strength.

 

[Neiler]

what was most annoying for us is that Chelsea already had a good team, then Abramovich’s millions came along and within one or two windows they were ready to challenge for the title. It also helped they had Terry and Lampard on the books already, probably two of their greatest ever players.

City didn’t have a great team so they bought top premier league players from outside the top teams to build their base from: Bellamy, Lescott, Wayne Bridge, Shay Given, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Barry, Milner. Then they got to a level where they could add class like Silva Toure Aguero which moves them to league winning level.

We tried to do the same, we poached the players who had been doing well in the premier league from the teams below us. Bolaise Williams Siggurdson Schneiderlin Gueye but sadly (Gueye aside) they just completely downed tools and larked about with an unbelievable level of i professionalism. Williams barely looked fit when playing for us, Bolaise got injured and the other two are two of the biggest free loading clowns to ever pull our shirt on. We should have been where City were when they were challenging for fourth spot at the end of the Hughes period. Instead we got set back about three years and progress in the Moshiri era basically only started from the moment Brands came in and that first window where finally players like Richarlison Digne and Mina came in and actually improved the squad rather Than adding to the layabout lads on tour culture we had before.

Last season was disappointing because all the injuries and Silva’s firing made it a false start but I’m hoping next season with Ancelotti, some more good signings and the likes of Gbamin and Gomes hopefully staying fit means we can really kick in and crate a base from which to climb higher again.

Good post mate, it does raise the point, that progress is less about money and more about the skills of using the money.

When you look at takeovers generally, its a lot of change in a short period of time, on and off the pitch. The administration has to keep pace with different financial boundaries and use different skills, change in, models, management (on/off field) inevitable and recruitment happens in huge swaths and the whole thing needs to be put together at pitch level, all those things in my opinion never happen fluidly and massive mistakes always seem to be made.

When i think of Everton over this period, im often left with the opinion, that everyone was a winner, i think Koeman got players he wanted, I think Walsh got players he wanted i think Bill got players he wanted. The whole thing wasn't a collective strategy though, more power plays and people who hadnt had that level of resources before lacking the skills to manage it or getting drunk on it, or the very least trying to find a new homeostasis in a new affluent normal. It led to a dogs dinner and created a horrible legacy we are still dealing with today.

Like a bad gambler we chased our losses even this year, manager after manager, signing after signing, until we got to a point were we have a squad signed by 4-5 different managers, by two directors of football, and a huge surplus that doesn't fit the "current" plan and the blood letting of wages undermining the progress and cost base of the club. Its been really really poor. I know there is a feel good factor around Carlo and the hope is around we have turned a corner, but whole club doesn't get a free ride this year for me, its another season undermined by bad choices.

The answer - clearly is to stop, to a degree - i mean that, in the sense we need be static and let the dust settle for a few years with what we have in place, the rate of change has been relentless, we need a static board, we need a static DOF, we need a static manager, we need a static squad that will be here for 5 years min, we need a minimum coming in and increase those going out, maybe three in and out and supplemented by youth team recruitment. We need to respond and not react, we need to build something that will grow, progress, stick and has staying power.

That's my opinion any how, we need less drama, less change more consistency, continuity and stability, Key word now is stop.

 

[Simon Buttle]

United would pay it

Mate, he has done nothing in the game, Utd won't pay £80m for him, when they paid £75m for Maguire he had played in Europe and for the national team, Villa will be lucky to get more than £50m for Grealish, tbh i don't think anyone will actually buy him.

 

[blue1948]

Good post mate, it does raise the point, that progress is less about money and more about the skills of using the money.

When you look at takeovers generally, its a lot of change in a short period of time, on and off the pitch. The administration has to keep pace with different financial boundaries and use different skills, change in, models, management (on/off field) inevitable and recruitment happens in huge swaths and the whole thing needs to be put together at pitch level, all those things in my opinion never happen fluidly and massive mistakes always seem to be made.

When i think of Everton over this period, im often left with the opinion, that everyone was a winner, i think Koeman got players he wanted, I think Walsh got players he wanted i think Bill got players he wanted. The whole thing wasn't a collective strategy though, more power plays and people who hadnt had that level of resources before lacking the skills to manage it or getting drunk on it, or the very least trying to find a new homeostasis in a new affluent normal. It led to a dogs dinner and created a horrible legacy we are still dealing with today.

Like a bad gambler we chased our losses even this year, manager after manager, signing after signing, until we got to a point were we have a squad signed by 4-5 different managers, by two directors of football, and a huge surplus that doesn't fit the "current" plan and the blood letting of wages undermining the progress and cost base of the club. Its been really really poor. I know there is a feel good factor around Carlo and the hope is around we have turned a corner, but whole club doesn't get a free ride this year for me, its another season undermined by bad choices.

The answer - clearly is to stop, to a degree - i mean that, in the sense we need be static and let the dust settle for a few years with what we have in place, the rate of change has been relentless, we need a static board, we need a static DOF, we need a static manager, we need a static squad that will be here for 5 years min, we need a minimum coming in and increase those going out, maybe three in and out and supplemented by youth team recruitment. We need to respond and not react, we need to build something that will grow, progress, stick and has staying power.

That's my opinion any how, we need less drama, less change more consistency, continuity and stability, Key word now is stop.

Cannot see that view to be honest ,you say some in and more out and then quote 3 each way ,also the squad is ageing so we cannot keep some for three years .Other than that I see the direction you are trying and presume it means that the five years means more the coaching staff than the players ,that I can 100% agree on .
You are so right that we as a club did all we could to mkae the current manager's happy but had no overall idea where we were going .

 

[Neiler]

Cannot see that view to be honest ,you say some in and more out and then quote 3 each way ,also the squad is ageing so we cannot keep some for three years .Other than that I see the direction you are trying and presume it means that the five years means more the coaching staff than the players ,that I can 100% agree on .
You are so right that we as a club did all we could to mkae the current manager's happy but had no overall idea where we were going .

I didn't really run an algorithm mate, but by three in and three out, i was speaking more of active players perhaps who hold a value in a squad of 25 both monetary and in the squad, say someone like Tom Davies, if a bid came in for him you have a choice to make in terms of player trading, Sigurdsson also as another example, can you trade up and improve that squad position and adsorb the loss in the squad or actually improve it.

I think thats fluid obviously as its subjective to circumstances more a guide then an absolute.

There will be natural wastage, age, contracts expiring etc, that would supplement outs, especially in the next two summers, i dont really count those in my 3/3 (in my head anyway) which is why i say we need to loose more.

Our squad size in obscene and we need to loose bodies who dont contribute or hold any value monitory or in our active squad, we dont need the number of players we have. I probably didn't describe it well - so apologies for that.

In many ways we have an active and inactive squad as mad as that sounds, which hints at the mess we have made of things.

 

[mccole]

For the price of Koulibaly, we could get Gabriel and Todibo plus a right back with the change.

He is quality but his age, price tag and wages is just too much.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

United would pay it

United won't pay 80 million. He's done nothing but stand out in a team flirting with relegation. Villa know he isn't worth that,So do United....all posturing.

 

[DaChunk]

Glad we don't have Walsh, he would be licking his lips at the thought of an 80mil signing.

 

[catcherintherye]

United would pay it

I doubt it, in the current market, given what has been said publicly by them.

 

[LocalNative]

For the price of Koulibaly, we could get Gabriel and Todibo plus a right back with the change.

He is quality but his age, price tag and wages is just too much.

He is, however, proven quality. Gabriel has had one season at the top, same with Todibo (who look really shaky against Dortmund yesterday).

Koulibaly is 28, we'd get 5 years or so out of him if he keeps himself in shape. He'd also be a huge help to the likes of Holgate. If we can get him it's a no brainer for me.

 

[catcherintherye]

what was most annoying for us is that Chelsea already had a good team, then Abramovich’s millions came along and within one or two windows they were ready to challenge for the title. It also helped they had Terry and Lampard on the books already, probably two of their greatest ever players.

City didn’t have a great team so they bought top premier league players from outside the top teams to build their base from: Bellamy, Lescott, Wayne Bridge, Shay Given, Santa Cruz, Adebayor, Barry, Milner. Then they got to a level where they could add class like Silva Toure Aguero which moves them to league winning level.

We tried to do the same, we poached the players who had been doing well in the premier league from the teams below us. Bolaise Williams Siggurdson Schneiderlin Gueye but sadly (Gueye aside) they just completely downed tools and larked about with an unbelievable level of i professionalism. Williams barely looked fit when playing for us, Bolaise got injured and the other two are two of the biggest free loading clowns to ever pull our shirt on. We should have been where City were when they were challenging for fourth spot at the end of the Hughes period. Instead we got set back about three years and progress in the Moshiri era basically only started from the moment Brands came in and that first window where finally players like Richarlison Digne and Mina came in and actually improved the squad rather Than adding to the layabout lads on tour culture we had before.

Last season was disappointing because all the injuries and Silva’s firing made it a false start but I’m hoping next season with Ancelotti, some more good signings and the likes of Gbamin and Gomes hopefully staying fit means we can really kick in and crate a base from which to climb higher again.

There are obviously 3 takeovers. Of the 3 Chelsea were the fursthest ahead in terms of squad, and also relatively speaking spent the most money (I believe they spent 40% of what had been spent the previous season by all teams in 2003). An equivalent figure today would be about £650m. An astonishing level of spend really and blew everyone else out of the water. They were operating before FFP and really took advantage. However it's worth noting it took until Mourinho rolled in to really take advantage of that.

City yes. We adopted a similar strategy and yes the players who've let us down are the PL players who we thought would be reliable. I mean if you look at Ashley Williams, almost two years younger than Jagielka, and think he fell off a cliff a year before Jagielka (and worse than him). Bolasie, terrible injury but really hopeless. Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Walcott, Tosun, Keane to a degree Pickford just really poor. Ultimately the foundations weren't able to be built at all.

However that being said the last 2 years, there has been some improvement, and again the hope will be with a proper manager he can start to get a tune out of some of the younger players.