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Everton Transfer Thread - Summer 2020

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Lanolin said:
You're definitely right here, but both attitudes are as bad as eachother to be honest. If we'd won people would be saying we were going to win the league next year, which would be equally ludicrous. I think what has caused a bit of a backlash is that people had convinced themselves everything was alright now. There were loads of posts about how Carlo had come up with this magic formula and now we were just going to win all our games 1-0 and once he had his own players there'd be no stopping us. The defeat has brought people crashing back down to earth because a) It was a truly horrific performance in its own right and b) It just highlighted that actually we haven't solved any of our problems at all, we've just masked them a bit better. The focus - rightly, in my opinion - shifts to Brands when both of those things become apparent. It's fair to say that this is a long term project and he shouldn't be expected to unearth gems 100% of the time, but it's also fair to say that it's a damning indictment of his recruitment so far that our game plan under one of the greatest managers currently in the game is effectively to have as little of the ball as possible and simplify our approach to the point that you're just asking your wide players to play like extra full backs and your strikers to chase the ball as fast they can.

If we sign Lingard I will cry real tears.
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It's really hard to judge his signings though - precisely BECAUSE of the current game plan. The likes of Iwobi and Bernard are now being universally decried as crap, rubbish, failures etc. Both were signed to play in specific roles in a Marco Silva 4231/433. They're both like fish out of water in a Carlo Ancelotti 442. Brands didn't sign them for this. And I don't think Ancelotti was Brands' choice for manager either. I'm not saying he's correct in that view - I think we all agree hopefully that it's amazing to have Ancelotti. But it does mean that some of the signings Brands made - in good faith that they'd fit a system he was viewing as the future of the club and its management - now need to be given a bit of slack, as they are struggling in a system they were never signed to play in.

Honestly, I don't think I've seen any fans anywhere give their players so little patience and support as our fans do. Literal hatred towards Iwobi, who has tried his heart out and probably played about 10% of his total minutes in the position he was actually signed to play in (no.10). It's little wonder our results have improved with no fans in the ground.
 
GwladysBlue said:
If we’re only doing loans and swaps then we might as well just give up on next season too.
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I don’t believe that for a second. But after Kirkbride did his ridiculous, pure guess work piece. Nearly everyone has shat thier pants. And every piece in the echo About a player we’ve been linked With by red journalists, they trot that line out.

Interesting that Kirkbride said Hwang from Salzburg was a top target. Well looks like he’s off to Leipzig, which was always the case the way the 2 red bull teams work. But was strange line at the end of his piece.
 
funkygibson said:
Promising if true. Already taken a substantial pay cut to stay there to complete the season, Valladolid would like to make it permanent. He seems intent on wanting to stay in his homeland
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How would that work?

Surely, Everton have to pay him whatever his contract says that he's owed, regardless of loan moves?
 

Carlito said:
How would that work?

Surely, Everton have to pay him whatever his contract says that he's owed, regardless of loan moves?
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sportwitness.co.uk

Everton man gave up 'significant amount' of wages to secure exit - Current salary considered 'unattainable' - Sport Witness

Everton striker Sandro Ramírez has given up a ‘significant amount’ of his salary to ensure his stay at Real Valladolid. That’s according to journalist Christina Bea, relayed by Pucela Fichajes, who explained how the forward was able to extend his stay at the Spanish club. Ramírez has been with...
sportwitness.co.uk sportwitness.co.uk
 
Carlito said:
How would that work?

Surely, Everton have to pay him whatever his contract says that he's owed, regardless of loan moves?
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I've never understood how the finances of loans come across. You often see that with players not wanting to move to club X "because of the finances involved". He has a contract, they, in theory, should be getting paid regardless of where they play, it's just a matter of the two clubs agreeing who pays what, no? They player should almost never take a pay cut because, again, contract?
 
riddick said:
I've never understood how the finances of loans come across. You often see that with players not wanting to move to club X "because of the finances involved". He has a contract, they, in theory, should be getting paid regardless of where they play, it's just a matter of the two clubs agreeing who pays what, no? They player should almost never take a pay cut because, again, contract?
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He gave up money to go to real sociedad as well, though not much.

It's pretty simple though- Everton agree a deal with the loaning club saying the loaning club pay X% of his wages (makes sense given currency), and the player agrees a contract with the loaning club.

From the players point of view if he doesn't agree to accepting less money he doesn't get the loan move and doesn't play
 

The_La said:
It's really hard to judge his signings though - precisely BECAUSE of the current game plan. The likes of Iwobi and Bernard are now being universally decried as crap, rubbish, failures etc. Both were signed to play in specific roles in a Marco Silva 4231/433. They're both like fish out of water in a Carlo Ancelotti 442. Brands didn't sign them for this. And I don't think Ancelotti was Brands' choice for manager either. I'm not saying he's correct in that view - I think we all agree hopefully that it's amazing to have Ancelotti. But it does mean that some of the signings Brands made - in good faith that they'd fit a system he was viewing as the future of the club and its management - now need to be given a bit of slack, as they are struggling in a system they were never signed to play in.

Honestly, I don't think I've seen any fans anywhere give their players so little patience and support as our fans do. Literal hatred towards Iwobi, who has tried his heart out and probably played about 10% of his total minutes in the position he was actually signed to play in (no.10). It's little wonder our results have improved with no fans in the ground.
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That defence doesn't work for a number of reasons.

Firstly the reason we have a new manager to begin with is that the players weren't performing under the previous one either, in the system that they supposedly do suit. Secondly, Ancelotti is known for using the system which he believes best utilises what he has at his disposal. He evidently doesn't believe that playing the formation they were bought to play in would get the best out of these players. Thirdly, the formation isn't really what I was talking about. It's as if Ancelotti doesn't actually trust the players to have the ball. It shouldn't matter whether you're in a midfield 3 or a 2, or whether you're playing wide in 442 or 4231, it doesn't affect your actual footballing ability, and yet our plan is seemingly to play very basic football because the players aren't deemed capable of doing anything more complicated. From what we've seen of them, that lack of faith is completely justified.

Finally the thing about our fans always makes me laugh. Our fans are no different - better or worse - than any other set of supporters across the country. You just don't live in an echo chamber of notts county fans in the way you do among Everton fans, so you don't hear them moaning.

Actually one more thing, if you think Iwobi 'tries his heart out' then you've got a cheek criticising other fans. The lad's wimped out of tackles in his last 2 games, if fans are happy with that level of 'effort' then you have at least got one thing right, it's probably better we don't have a full ground.
 
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riddick said:
I've never understood how the finances of loans come across. You often see that with players not wanting to move to club X "because of the finances involved". He has a contract, they, in theory, should be getting paid regardless of where they play, it's just a matter of the two clubs agreeing who pays what, no? They player should almost never take a pay cut because, again, contract?
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Hence why it's significant that he has. A contract is simply an agreement between parties; adding an extra club into the mix for a loan move just means a bit of extra negotiation and more paperwork for the secretary. They can change terms to whatever they like so long as all sides agree.
 
riddick said:
I've never understood how the finances of loans come across. You often see that with players not wanting to move to club X "because of the finances involved". He has a contract, they, in theory, should be getting paid regardless of where they play, it's just a matter of the two clubs agreeing who pays what, no? They player should almost never take a pay cut because, again, contract?
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I’m no expert either. I’ve always thought that under normal circumstances a player goes on loan to a club then the club loaning the player take on 100% of his salary. In sandro’s case however with him being on a ludicrous wage that Valladolid can’t afford then it maybe that Everton pay 50% and Valladolid pay 50%. This is why I see it as a positive in that, to be fair to Sandro he could easily say, ok if you 2 clubs can’t sort it out I’ll just sit on my derrière for a couple of months and Everton can pay me £100,000 + a week, instead he wants to keep playing for a couple of months on reduced wages
 

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