Everton Youth Teams Thread

[catcherintherye]

I understand the initial hype with Astley playing so young but let’s face it, he’s of no different of a profile to Feeney who never made it here. You just can’t be that slight and play at the back unless you’re extra special.

No I agree with that and have said his lack of height has probably done for him. Hes only 19 though, and our defensive record is very good. I do wonder if they try him on loan for a season and see how he does.

His issue has been, he got in at 15, but because too many players like Pennington were kept on for too long, it took 4 years for him to get a run as a CB.

I'll be honest, I rate him a bit higher than Feeney.

 

[Sinski]

This from the Echo re Kouyate’s injury. Unusual to have an op on your hamstring when you’re that young.

Everton academy forward Katia Kouyate has undergone a successful operation to repair a damaged hamstring tendon.

The 17-year-old - who made his under-23 debut under David Unsworth this season - is in recovery and will continue to work alongside club medical staff throughout his rehabilitation.


Kouyate posted on social media: "Op was successful we give all thanks to the most high road to recovery big season to come."

Able to play across the forward line, Kouyate impressed Unsworth after making his u-23 bow at Blackburn Rovers in November.

Unsworth told the ECHO afterwards: "I was delighted with Katia. He showed some glimpses, some real flashes of pace and directness and power.

At least they found that was the issue. Seen it with Aussie Rules footballers before who go through a bad few years of doing hamstrings every time they make a comeback for them to eventually figure it out there was damage to the tendon and this causes the hamstring strains. Possibly why we did not hear anything for awhile as he probably did one and kept trying to come back for only to do it again. This might be a good sign that they have caught it early enough and hopefully he can be back for the start of pre season.

 

[blueblue]

Yes all true.

The reality is, most fans would shout for the head of Ancelotti if we are 14th next season but he played younger players. I'm not having a go, as I probably would. I dont know enough about German, Spanish or French football but I doubt that culture is quite is strong. So using a German example, and wanting us to emulate that, never makes a lot of sense to me.

The manager will put a player in if hes good enough. It's kind of the only way it can be.

Gordon probably has a bit of time left here, but not much. I do think once you start going on more than 1 loan, you're in trouble. You hope the time away has done him good, but next pre season is really important to him. Sometimes it's just a case you become more mature. Or you believe you can do it.

I believe hes 20 now, and as you say not money make the step up after that.

I appreciate that will sound callous to people, but that's where we are at. Theres Dobbin who's a year below, theres Whittaker who's 17 who are both looking promising.

Dowell is a good example too. Yes on the one hand people will view him a failure. He will be back in the PL with Norwich next year. He will probably have a contract not far off 1m per year and once that contract runs out, I'd imagine he will be a multi-millionaire. Sure he wont ake it here, but he will do very well, and if Gordon doesnt quite make it, I'm sure he will be too. So I dont worry too much in general.

It's been a poor year for Gordon, but if you went back 2-3 years, I'm sure he'd have bitten your hand off for where he is now.

I will be interested to see how Kieran Dowell does in the Premiership.
However he will be close to turning 24 when the new season is about to start, vs till a young man but an age when performances are expected.

 

[Philw]

And I honestly think, you can probably keep going to football for the next 50 years, and you might not see another lad like Rooney, at 15, for any club. Where you could see, even at 15 he was so well rounded he could already be a very good pro.

It seems very odd, but those who saw that young Rooney will probably attest to him probably slightly underachieving in his career. It sounds odd for a guy who win the lot, multiple times, many as captain. A guy who is the record goal scorer for his country and for the countries most successful team. Hes arguably the greatest player the country has produced. I'm not sure there should have been a debate though.

This is spades for me. He could/should have been in the debate with Messi and Ronaldo year in year out. But as you and others have posted previously, it's an impossible standard for our other young players to live up to. Even Barkley is a tough level to reach early on.

Gordon probably has a bit of time left here, but not much. I do think once you start going on more than 1 loan, you're in trouble. You hope the time away has done him good, but next pre season is really important to him. Sometimes it's just a case you become more mature. Or you believe you can do it.

That's the other thing with loans, is that they don't have to be good on the pitch. Gordon's clearly got talent, it might be that being in the team, starting well, losing his place etc, and how he responds, is what he needed to learn from the experience to become the player we want him to be. I think he can be a Osman or Barkley level player for us.

It's certainly a bad injury to get for a forward player.

Hopefully he's young enough that it will heal well and not become an issue throughout his career like it can for older players.

Astley is probably the one exception you may look at again and try to get him out on loan. But other than that yes, need to be ruthless.

I understand the initial hype with Astley playing so young but let’s face it, he’s of no different of a profile to Feeney who never made it here. You just can’t be that slight and play at the back unless you’re extra special.

Astley was slightly ahead on the curve than Feeney was wasn't he? Kids don't finish filling out until their early 20s, so still time on that front. I also quite like John. Think he might have more of a chance than Kenny. Has always looked good when I've watched, but I didn't see much of Kenny coming through, so I could be way off.

 

[Nymzee]

No I agree with that and have said his lack of height has probably done for him. Hes only 19 though, and our defensive record is very good. I do wonder if they try him on loan for a season and see how he does.

His issue has been, he got in at 15, but because too many players like Pennington were kept on for too long, it took 4 years for him to get a run as a CB.

I'll be honest, I rate him a bit higher than Feeney.

Oh he’s better than Feeney I just meant he’s more a very basic CB that really needed to bulk up but seemingly hasn’t. He’s 20 later this year which is past the point for my liking even in his position.

 

[messymascot]

Some big decisions to be made there at U23s level for the likes of Astley and John . Anderson, Ouzounidis and Hansen are highly likely to go, and Bobby Carroll’s contract is up too, shame he’s been hit by so much lost time to injury. If they do move out Anderson, Ouzounidis, Astley, John then the young u18s defence of Small, Campbell, Welch, Mallon could move up en mass, very young for an U23s defence and with not a lot of U23s experience between them so far, plus defenders Kristensen and Harry Hagan who have contracts already.

The other factors are our current u16s who become Scholars come July and our talented u15s a few of whom will be in the mix as Schoolboy u16s next season. Many will need to play U18 right from the start of the season so we must have a lot of faith in them if we do reduce the older ones drastically. Throw in a couple of purchases to fill gaps and we will have a very different U23s team next season than the one that started this.

I would keep John as Mallon is the only other option at RB and I would keep Anderson as Small is the only real option at LB. Anderson is also able to cover CB so gives the option of going 3 at the back. I would keep Astley and he would start the season as first choice CB in u23s alongside Welch. He would then be loaned out in the winter to get a taste of open age football which should then allow opportunities for Kristiensen, Hagan and maybe Campbell. I would release Ouzounidis as hebis clearly down the pecking order.

 

[blueblue]

One thing that does surprise me a little with our younger players is that we don't see them getting opportunities to play in different areas of the team .

I would like to see a player such as Astley moved into midfield or as no. 10.
Why not, it will be good for their development and you never know what you will find out about a player.

 

[blueloon]

I understand the initial hype with Astley playing so young but let’s face it, he’s of no different of a profile to Feeney who never made it here. You just can’t be that slight and play at the back unless you’re extra special.

“ Harsh but fair”. I’m a big Astley fan, he has lots of ball playing talent, but I’ve sometimes thought he’s a bit like Ryan Ledson - captain of his country through age groups, playing above his age at 16 and showing a great footballing brain making him mature beyond his years when younger. Then other players catch him up as his progress slows and physicality becomes an issue.

Hed still be the one I’d give another year too though. We also need to be careful of disadvantaging early developers , they get a pro contract as soon as they’re 17 which usually gives them 1 year at U23s , later developers get a contract at 18 which usually gives them 2 years at U23s. Astley is caught like that , Rhys Hughes as an example is the same age group and has another year of U23s to prove himself. Two years at U23s seems a useful rule of thumb to apply, if they haven’t proved themselves then , off they go , usually at 20.

 

[jazzy]

Is Terry Small staying or going chaps?

 

[Ring master]

Youth cup date set and pretty certain to be on Chelsea TV [but not confirmed yet]

Thursday 15th April 12.30KO

FA Youth Cup 5th Round
Chelsea u18s v Everton u18s

Winners play
Tuesday 13th April 7PM KO

FA Youth Cup 5th Round
Spurs v West brom

 

[Nymzee]

“ Harsh but fair”. I’m a big Astley fan, he has lots of ball playing talent, but I’ve sometimes thought he’s a bit like Ryan Ledson - captain of his country through age groups, playing above his age at 16 and showing a great footballing brain making him mature beyond his years when younger. Then other players catch him up as his progress slows and physicality becomes an issue.

Hed still be the one I’d give another year too though. We also need to be careful of disadvantaging early developers , they get a pro contract as soon as they’re 17 which usually gives them 1 year at U23s , later developers get a contract at 18 which usually gives them 2 years at U23s. Astley is caught like that , Rhys Hughes as an example is the same age group and has another year of U23s to prove himself. Two years at U23s seems a useful rule of thumb to apply, if they haven’t proved themselves then , off they go , usually at 20.

Oh I’d be all for giving him a year out on loan. I think one more year in the U23’s at this stage is just pointless. By my count he’s on 47 apps for the U23’s and eventually you have to think what’s he learning? Needs to play against men and better plays to size him up.

 

[Lanolin]

I'd keep at least one of the older heads in defence I think. I know a lot of people just want to see a conveyor belt of different faces coming through and I understand why, but I think it can be important to have a few players you can rely on and who can help younger players through games. Having a team full of 18 year olds can be exciting on paper, but it's not a lot of fun for them if they get bullied and beaten all the time. It depends on the character and profile of players of course, but personally I think there's a lot to be said for having some more experienced players around who know how the under 23s works.

 

[Zatara]

Is Terry Small staying or going chaps?

We'll know on the 1st August

 

[Nymzee]

I'd keep at least one of the older heads in defence I think. I know a lot of people just want to see a conveyor belt of different faces coming through and I understand why, but I think it can be important to have a few players you can rely on and who can help younger players through games. Having a team full of 18 year olds can be exciting on paper, but it's not a lot of fun for them if they get bullied and beaten all the time. It depends on the character and profile of players of course, but personally I think there's a lot to be said for having some more experienced players around who know how the under 23s works.

I see your point but outside of the EFL Cup, or whatever it’s called, these lads aren’t getting bullied & beaten in kids football.

 

[Lanolin]

I see your point but outside of the EFL Cup, or whatever it’s called, these lads aren’t getting bullied & beaten in kids football.

Well I meant beaten as in the scoreline but I see now that I didn't make that clear. I think you can definitely get bullied as an 18 year old centre half who's used to playing people your own age and younger when you come up against a 20/21 year old who's maybe had a football league loan. It's pretty easy to lose confidence as a young lad when things aren't going well, having someone next to you who has a bit more experience (and maybe a bit more leadership/muscle) can be a big help.