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Everton Youth Teams Thread

Fair play to him, fair play to Southampton.

Probably took one look at some of our subs benches last season when we had about 4/5 outfield players and 2 keepers on it, rather than a single player from the u23s to realise it was pointless him staying.

I don’t know as much of the u23s as some on here so correct me if I’m wrong, but probably didn’t fancy playing for 2/3 years under Unsworth with a pretty poor style of football compared to other u23s, and not developing a single bit (like seemingly countless before), before a loan to league one at 19. Might have changed in the past 18 months so I apologise if that’s the case
 
optatom154 said:
Fair play to him, fair play to Southampton.

Probably took one look at some of our subs benches last season when we had about 4/5 outfield players and 2 keepers on it, rather than a single player from the u23s to realise it was pointless him staying.

I don’t know as much of the u23s as some on here so correct me if I’m wrong, but probably didn’t fancy playing for 2/3 years under Unsworth with a pretty poor style of football compared to other u23s, and not developing a single bit (like seemingly countless before), before a loan to league one at 19. Might have changed in the past 18 months so I apologise if that’s the case
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To be fair to the academy they must have done something right for him to become so highly rated.
Says he’s second fiddle to the fella they signed at left back earlier in this window so we will see how many games he gets.
 
optatom154 said:
Fair play to him, fair play to Southampton.

Probably took one look at some of our subs benches last season when we had about 4/5 outfield players and 2 keepers on it, rather than a single player from the u23s to realise it was pointless him staying.

I don’t know as much of the u23s as some on here so correct me if I’m wrong, but probably didn’t fancy playing for 2/3 years under Unsworth with a pretty poor style of football compared to other u23s, and not developing a single bit (like seemingly countless before), before a loan to league one at 19. Might have changed in the past 18 months so I apologise if that’s the case
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…I very much doubt Unsworth even came into his thoughts. Indeed, I suspect he thinks positively about his time with us.

I just have a view he’s done what’s best for him from both a financial and development perspective. Given he was in demand from a few clubs, I imagine he’s been given a very tidy signing fee and salary. His chances of breaking into Southampton’s team must be greater than jumping the queue here.

I’m not here to defend Unsworth but I think there is a misinformed view of him being responsible for players not coming through.

Most youngsters are discarded by clubs, Small has at least got himself in a good financial position if he fails to make it.
 
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I'd take 2 million and a sell on. Not sure you can really expect much more than that if we are honest. The precedent Saints will use is probably Luke Matheson who went for less and had more experience. Harvey Elliott is the best in the country for his age and had a lot of fulham apps and only got 4.3 as mentioned above.

It'll probably be an identical fee to Galvez going from Watford to City, same age group, same position and same amount of hype.

We'd be in a much better position if we'd gave him a few more token appearances.
 
EFC_FRANCIS said:
I'd take 2 million and a sell on. Not sure you can really expect much more than that if we are honest. The precedent Saints will use is probably Luke Matheson who went for less and had more experience. Harvey Elliott is the best in the country for his age and had a lot of fulham apps and only got 4.3 as mentioned above.

It'll probably be an identical fee to Galvez going from Watford to City, same age group, same position and same amount of hype.

We'd be in a much better position if we'd gave him a few more token appearances.
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I don’t believe it’s just about looking at his appearances for us, although not a lawyer. The reason for Elliot’s fee being what it was, is due to the apparent potential, rather than just his achievements at the time.

If Small goes to Southampton and starts playing games for them that will surely factor into the decision as proof of his value to them, and the potential financial loss we have suffered.

The fee for Elliot is also heavily weighted towards future appearances which is what I imagine Everton will be pushing for, alongside a sell on fee.
 

Good luck to the lad, it's a brave decision. For me shows he wants to play rather than just take a big pay packet. Everton probably knew this was going to happen hence his appearance in the first team (has to make a difference to the tribunal). Time will tell if it is a good move for him. Not being a bitter person I wish him the best and hope to see him lining up for Dover Athletic on a permanent transfer in the very near future.
 
Nymzee said:
Well it is important as we’ve previously had one of the older teams in the league which isn’t a good sign for development or a pathway.
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Average age is a really good indicator and frankly a lot more important than points. Whatever the result yesterday, Everton's young players will have got a lot more from than that lads like Koumetio, Ojo or Williams who have all played (or got close to) 1st team football. We gave over a year away to Liverpool yesterday, which is enormous at that level. Ojo has played nearly 150 professional senior games in his career and probably earns as much a year as most of our team. I don;t know all of their guys, but a lot of them would have been brought in for hefty fees, sign on fees and wages.

Our equivalent players, are currently either in the 1st team our out on loan. You think of Brainthwaite, Gibson, Simms, Gordon etc and they are all either with the 1st team or on loan. When you think of an Ojo, he is also a bit like Holgate or Davies, it just seems a bit pointless him playing against 17 year olds in the 23's league. So it's not just that their players are older, but also vastly more experienced, paid a lot more money in terms of fees and wages.
 
Brennan said:
I don’t believe it’s just about looking at his appearances for us, although not a lawyer. The reason for Elliot’s fee being what it was, is due to the apparent potential, rather than just his achievements at the time.

If Small goes to Southampton and starts playing games for them that will surely factor into the decision as proof of his value to them, and the potential financial loss we have suffered.
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Don't believe they factor in anything that happens after the transfer occurs. Going by that if he bust his leg in the first training session you could argue he would be worth less. Its just a tribunal to sort what the fee should be at the time.

Elliotts fee does consider potential but potential is based off past performance which Elliott had played at a higher level whilst younger. They don't just look at appearances they will look at the value of the contract he signed, England youth apps etc. Elliott was a record breaking fee and Small isn't close to him for ability nor is he in as valued a position which will go against us.
 
Brennan said:
I don’t believe it’s just about looking at his appearances for us, although not a lawyer. The reason for Elliot’s fee being what it was, is due to the apparent potential, rather than just his achievements at the time.

If Small goes to Southampton and starts playing games for them that will surely factor into the decision as proof of his value to them, and the potential financial loss we have suffered.

The fee for Elliot is also heavily weighted towards future appearances which is what I imagine Everton will be pushing for, alongside a sell on fee.
Click to expand...

The likelihood on Small's fees is it will be (mind the pun) Small down payment but lots of add ons. Elliots fee is only 4-5m but there is a 25% sell on attached to it. I don't think our fee will be the same, but likely to have some "milestones" and a significant sell on.
 

At the end of last season our U23s absolutely battered Southampton U23s both home and away, they finished bottom and were relegated. Training with the first team is great, but I suspect he’ll have many more minutes playing for a poor U23s team in PL2 Division 2 this season than for Southamptons first team. That can suck the life out of talented players and limit their progression, then it’s down the hit and miss route of a loan out next season.

Secondly, it hurts us because we’ve lost a talented kid but it is unlikely to affect the first team for many years , and in those terms we have many more worries than losing our third choice left back. Shrug shoulders, move on.
 
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I'm not as clued into the youth setup as some, more learned folks in here but I take the lower average age to be a good thing. Assuming it carries on through the season it suggests our younger, more talented players a quicker step up to U23s and therefore - if they warrant it - a clearer path to the first team.

On the other end of the scale, of course, we need to see decisions made to cut players NOT suitable for the first team earlier than 23/24.
 

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