Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Cameron Manning]

I have spoken to a few of are young players , and they all have a lot of time for Tait said he was the only one holding it together behind the scenes in the Rafael times and surprisingly when Lampart was in charge,who with the exception of Ashley Cole who was good with them, they said it was a shambles and nobody seemed to know what half the people around the manager did from there viewpiont.
It's the recruitment that has killed us of the pitch , the ban didn't help and City hoovering up everything in the NW hasn't helped either.

It hasn’t stopped Liverpool introducing two or three players, this season, to the first team.

 

[Cameron Manning]

….my understanding is that Thelwell has brought in new personnel. Regardless, I think the Academy is more about recruitment than coaching. The coaching is fine, the special talent will come through but the difficulty is finding them. There is also an increasing trait of promising Academy players leaving for attractive financial packages elsewhere.

Yes recruitment is important but the coaching is just as important and while the main aim is producing young players for the first team it is also there to get players able to play in a team structure, this doesn’t seem to be working under the coaches at Everton for quite a few years. I know you take a keen interest, Eggs, in how we perform in English FA youth cup and there hasn’t been much excitement in that tournament for a long time.

 

[blueblue]

It hasn’t stopped Liverpool introducing two or three players, this season, to the first team.

It is much easier to introduce a player to a team that is winning every week than a team struggling with the challenges we face.
Last year we got 45m for Gordon, 7m apiece for Cannon and Simms, sold Samuels Smith for 4m.
This season we have introduced Branthwaite and Dobbin to the team and I think next season we will see Stanley Mills playing a part, maybe others as well.

Of all the parts of the club that have underperformed I don't think that is the case with the academy.
From Rooney, Barkley, Stones , DCL we have nurtured young talent from under age or brought to the club near the of their time in under age football and used them as a cash cow to keep the club afloat.

 

[Raino85]

….my understanding is that Thelwell has brought in new personnel. Regardless, I think the Academy is more about recruitment than coaching. The coaching is fine, the special talent will come through but the difficulty is finding them. There is also an increasing trait of promising Academy players leaving for attractive financial packages elsewhere.

Think it dosent help with the academy plan the likes of City & Chelsea (and now Liverpool have copied).
They have 30-40 lads in each age group, cherry picking them from all over the country!

A lot of these lads semi know they aren't going to make it at City, but it has all the best facilities, coaches & career plan......it also offers good loans/transfers when the lads hit 16-18!
Its a little like the college system in America...........the end goal isn't necessarily to get into City's team, but when the time comes to 'graduate' its to make it as a footballer!

It would make sense to start looking at the ones that slip through the cracks at the age of release! (we made cash off Simms doing it that way!)

 

[JimmyK]

Yes recruitment is important but the coaching is just as important and while the main aim is producing young players for the first team it is also there to get players able to play in a team structure, this doesn’t seem to be working under the coaches at Everton for quite a few years. I know you take a keen interest, Eggs, in how we perform in English FA youth cup and there hasn’t been much excitement in that tournament for a long time.

Its not just as important it doesn't matter how amazing the coaches are if the players aren't good enough to make it!

 

[Eggs]

Think it dosent help with the academy plan the likes of City & Chelsea (and now Liverpool have copied).
They have 30-40 lads in each age group, cherry picking them from all over the country!

A lot of these lads semi know they aren't going to make it at City, but it has all the best facilities, coaches & career plan......it also offers good loans/transfers when the lads hit 16-18!
Its a little like the college system in America...........the end goal isn't necessarily to get into City's team, but when the time comes to 'graduate' its to make it as a footballer!

It would make sense to start looking at the ones that slip through the cracks at the age of release! (we made cash off Simms doing it that way!)

….agree, I think that’s a clever strategy as is buying the best youngsters from lower leagues like we did with Stones, Lookman, Branthwaite, DCL etc.

 

[Cameron Manning]

Its not just as important it doesn't matter how amazing the coaches are if the players aren't good enough to make it!

They can always be improved by decent coaches it works both ways, look how some of our players have improved under Dyche and his coaches.

 

[Cameron Manning]

It is much easier to introduce a player to a team that is winning every week than a team struggling with the challenges we face.
Last year we got 45m for Gordon, 7m apiece for Cannon and Simms, sold Samuels Smith for 4m.
This season we have introduced Branthwaite and Dobbin to the team and I think next season we will see Stanley Mills playing a part, maybe others as well.

Of all the parts of the club that have underperformed I don't think that is the case with the academy.
From Rooney, Barkley, Stones , DCL we have nurtured young talent from under age or brought to the club near the of their time in under age football and used them as a cash cow to keep the club afloat.

I’ve never disagreed that the Academy doesn’t pay for itself, good coaches will be known as such and attract young players to the club. How many young players have we had that became regulars in the first team in the last few years, I’m hoping Dobbin can be one, Branthwaite is definitely one, Gordon could have been one but that doesn’t really matter because of the fee we got for him, did he improve under the Academy coaches, he had the same good talent that I saw him with at sixteen when he was twenty one and he also had the same faults.

 

[Raino85]

I’ve never disagreed that the Academy doesn’t pay for itself, good coaches will be known as such and attract young players to the club. How many young players have we had that became regulars in the first team in the last few years, I’m hoping Dobbin can be one, Branthwaite is definitely one, Gordon could have been one but that doesn’t really matter because of the fee we got for him, did he improve under the Academy coaches, he had the same good talent that I saw him with at sixteen when he was twenty one and he also had the same faults.

i think one academy/young purchase making the first team every 2 seasons is pretty good going by Premier League standards

2023/24 Jarrad Branthwaite
2022/23
2021/22 Anthony Gordon
2020/21
2019/20
2018/19
2017/18 Dominic Calvert Lewin
2016/17 Tom Davies/Mason Holgate
2015/16
2014/15
2013/14 Ross Barkley/ John Stones

That's 7 in 10 years, who we managed to raise £105 million for while still having 3 on the books (could of been more if we cashed in on Davies, Holgate & DCL at the right times)

 

[blueloon]

I’ve never disagreed that the Academy doesn’t pay for itself, good coaches will be known as such and attract young players to the club. How many young players have we had that became regulars in the first team in the last few years, I’m hoping Dobbin can be one, Branthwaite is definitely one, Gordon could have been one but that doesn’t really matter because of the fee we got for him, did he improve under the Academy coaches, he had the same good talent that I saw him with at sixteen when he was twenty one and he also had the same faults.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say about Gordon. He played over 60 matches for us , so no “ could have been “ about it. At 16 he was a spindly waif, he left us at 21 for the biggest fee we’ve ever got for an Academy graduate, and you seem to be suggesting he hadn’t improved from 16-21 and that he had the same good talent/ faults when he left. I’m baffled.
The thing about Gordon that stands out for me is just how much he wanted it, from knocking on Carlo’s door to hiring his own personal trainer during COVID . You could say that he had a similar coaching set up to Kieran Dowell, and I’d say Dowell had more natural talent at 18 , but Gordon put in the effort and application. Sometimes coaches can only take a talented youngster so far …..

 

[Eggs]

i think one academy/young purchase making the first team every 2 seasons is pretty good going by Premier League standards

2023/24 Jarrad Branthwaite
2022/23
2021/22 Anthony Gordon
2020/21
2019/20
2018/19
2017/18 Dominic Calvert Lewin
2016/17 Tom Davies/Mason Holgate
2015/16
2014/15
2013/14 Ross Barkley/ John Stones

That's 7 in 10 years, who we managed to raise £105 million for while still having 3 on the books (could of been more if we cashed in on Davies, Holgate & DCL at the right times)

…also Lookman made us a few quid.

 

[Cameron Manning]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say about Gordon. He played over 60 matches for us , so no “ could have been “ about it. At 16 he was a spindly waif, he left us at 21 for the biggest fee we’ve ever got for an Academy graduate, and you seem to be suggesting he hadn’t improved from 16-21 and that he had the same good talent/ faults when he left. I’m baffled.
The thing about Gordon that stands out for me is just how much he wanted it, from knocking on Carlo’s door to hiring his own personal trainer during COVID . You could say that he had a similar coaching set up to Kieran Dowell, and I’d say Dowell had more natural talent at 18 , but Gordon put in the effort and application. Sometimes coaches can only take a talented youngster so far …..

If he was knocking on Carlo’s door he didn’t get in very often, under Benitez he improved but Benitez said he couldn’t last ninety minutes which Anthony proved under Lampard and is still proving at Newcastle going by the last few games I have seen him play for them, blowing for tugs after a couple of good runs.

When he was in the U18’s and U23’s he could get you out of your seat with great play then go missing for the rest of the game and he’s still like that but I’m very grateful for the fee we got for him.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Think it dosent help with the academy plan the likes of City & Chelsea (and now Liverpool have copied).
They have 30-40 lads in each age group, cherry picking them from all over the country!

A lot of these lads semi know they aren't going to make it at City, but it has all the best facilities, coaches & career plan......it also offers good loans/transfers when the lads hit 16-18!
Its a little like the college system in America...........the end goal isn't necessarily to get into City's team, but when the time comes to 'graduate' its to make it as a footballer!

It would make sense to start looking at the ones that slip through the cracks at the age of release! (we made cash off Simms doing it that way!)

Honestly this should now be our bread an butter but not just released ones because these clubs don't really get them wrong nearly as much as they have to sell even better players who then actually want to graduate as you put it.

You could easily make a comfortable mid table side with players City and Chelsea have had and will have to sell at 18/19/20 and that number will only increase the more these clubs invest and hoover up talent. But all that is a moot point without buy in from the manager

 

[tellmema]

i think one academy/young purchase making the first team every 2 seasons is pretty good going by Premier League standards

2023/24 Jarrad Branthwaite
2022/23
2021/22 Anthony Gordon
2020/21
2019/20
2018/19
2017/18 Dominic Calvert Lewin
2016/17 Tom Davies/Mason Holgate
2015/16
2014/15
2013/14 Ross Barkley/ John Stones

That's 7 in 10 years, who we managed to raise £105 million for while still having 3 on the books (could of been more if we cashed in on Davies, Holgate & DCL at the right times)

105m and counting...

 

[blueloon]

Honestly this should now be our bread an butter but not just released ones because these clubs don't really get them wrong nearly as much as they have to sell even better players who then actually want to graduate as you put it.

You could easily make a comfortable mid table side with players City and Chelsea have had and will have to sell at 18/19/20 and that number will only increase the more these clubs invest and hoover up talent. But all that is a moot point without buy in from the manager

I was thinking about Chelsea when I read the original post. Names like Guehi, Liveramento, Tomori were well known at an early age, I guess we didn’t have the money and the forward planning to pursue them when Chelsea made them available. And the crux is that both City and Chelsea run that aspect of their academies like a business and don’t let them go cheap.