Evertonians in Ireland

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summerisle said:
Do we have a scouting network covering Ireland, or do we rely on individual recommendations ?
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Bit of both mate. Junior Club Home Farm on the Northside of Dublin still have a strong relationship with the club and tend to sign the best youngsters from across the country (or at least try to anyways)
 
davek said:
It's clearly in the subtext of that article.

"Liverpool FC hate the Irish".
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Liverpool were formed on the back of the Liverpool Orange Lodge Association. Houlding sat on both boards. Most of Liverpool's board were comprised of the majority of Liverpool's Orange Lodge and Conservative club.

This was not true for Everton, who had significant Irish representation that continued to be the case in the post war years. What I find fascinating was while at Board Level the distinction was as pronounced as any rivalry Britain (or the closest to Glasgow) that never filtered down into the fans attitudes.

You are correct though. Hating the Irish back then had a different meaning to today, where the toxic nature of such feeling has ebbed away. Hating the Irish then meant hating immigrants, the poorest and most dispossessed in a community. Everton's own welcoming attitude towards the Irish underpinned a community spirit, to reach out beyond our traditional base to welcome others and it's something we should never underestimate or forget.

It's what made the whole "Everton are white" nonsense of the 90's all the more unpalatable as it is in actuality not the case. It also allowed Liverpool and the media to portray us as historically a bunch of Neanderthal bigots and eradicate a very proud tradition. The fact Lawrensen can casually throw out the "Everton were tories" line sums this up.

In spite of SOS and the vogue communitarian drunken ramblings of your Aldo's of this world the reality is very different. Liverpool was a club formed by wealthy, elitist landowning businessmen who were consumed by hatred of an immigrant population. They were formed by a landowner who tried to screw over the tenants of his establishment, and when they stood up to him and fought back responded by trying to destroy them. He called upon most pathetic elements of the existing club, as well as similarly minded (largely Protestant) labour from areas like Scotland to help him achieve this.

There are words to describe people like that, and that word is scabs. They are a football club formed out of the essence of hate, using the scum of society and scab labour to rival the existing inclusive rival football team. Never let that be forgotten.
 
catcherintherye said:
Liverpool were formed on the back of the Liverpool Orange Lodge Association. Houlding sat on both boards. Most of Liverpool's board were comprised of the majority of Liverpool's Orange Lodge and Conservative club.

This was not true for Everton, who had significant Irish representation that continued to be the case in the post war years. What I find fascinating was while at Board Level the distinction was as pronounced as any rivalry Britain (or the closest to Glasgow) that never filtered down into the fans attitudes.

You are correct though. Hating the Irish back then had a different meaning to today, where the toxic nature of such feeling has ebbed away. Hating the Irish then meant hating immigrants, the poorest and most dispossessed in a community. Everton's own welcoming attitude towards the Irish underpinned a community spirit, to reach out beyond our traditional base to welcome others and it's something we should never underestimate or forget.

It's what made the whole "Everton are white" nonsense of the 90's all the more unpalatable as it is in actuality not the case. It also allowed Liverpool and the media to portray us as historically a bunch of Neanderthal bigots and eradicate a very proud tradition. The fact Lawrensen can casually throw out the "Everton were tories" line sums this up.

In spite of SOS and the vogue communitarian drunken ramblings of your Aldo's of this world the reality is very different. Liverpool was a club formed by wealthy, elitist landowning businessmen who were consumed by hatred of an immigrant population. They were formed by a landowner who tried to screw over the tenants of his establishment, and when they stood up to him and fought back responded by trying to destroy them. He called upon most pathetic elements of the existing club, as well as similarly minded (largely Protestant) labour from areas like Scotland to help him achieve this.

There are words to describe people like that, and that word is scabs. They are a football club formed out of the essence of hate, using the scum of society and scab labour to rival the existing inclusive rival football team. Never let that be forgotten.
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If you know your history! More than a song.

Just one thing about it not filtering down to the fans: anecdotal evidence suggest it did to a certain degree. It's all nonsense now, of course, and was never 'Glasgow' proportions (or even Edinburgh for that matter), but if you read books on Liverpool life in the 30s-60s period especially you invariably come across references by individuals to an informal split along religious lines. Anyone of a certain age on here *cough* will have heard older members of their families refer to it from years gone by.
 
davek said:
If you know your history! More than a song.

Just one thing about it not filtering down to the fans: anecdotal evidence suggest it did to a certain degree. It's all nonsense now, of course, and was never 'Glasgow' proportions (or even Edinburgh for that matter), but if you read books on Liverpool life in the 30s-60s period especially you invariably come across references by individuals to an informal split along religious lines. Anyone of a certain age on here *cough* will have heard older members of their families refer to it from years gone by.
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It is yes. To be fair I don't think Everton particularly helped ourselves over the 80's and 90's by not really tackling elements of the fanbase who dragged our name through the mud. To this day I'm not convinced how far the Carters of this world wanted to rectify Evertons record on signing Black players.

There was certainly some religious links though. You can still see Youtube video's of Liverpool fans singing "the Cry was No Surrender" on the kop as late as the 60's. It does fascinate me though that more wasn't made of it, as with Glasgow and Edinburgh as you suggest.

This isn't necessarily a big ploy to start getting us to love Ireland again by the way. How the Irish question is approached now is a million miles from how it was 100 years ago (obviously aside from a few cranks, losers and virgins who want to go marching around in medieval military geer).

What is important though is understanding how Everton was a home for groups of people who were isolated and rejected from the society they lived while Liverpool built itself upon that tradition with it's express aim to smash Everton as a result. They were backed by wealthy landowners, property owners and scabs from other Protestant communities in order to do so. We should never forget that.
 
We have a top scout in Ireland, he is at loads of games from the top level to under13s. Ironically he used to play for Rangers

I remember meeting Jimmy O'Neill quite a bit when over for matches, he told me stories which other people of a certain age have backed up that from the 30s through to the 50s the Irish public followed 3 teams. Everton, wolves and leeds. The boats would be packed with supporters of these 3.

The Munich air disaster started united on the road to where they are now in regards Irish support. Liverpools success in the 70s and 80s generated interest in them.

The amount of idiots who support Celtic and also Liverpool is amazing giving their complete different backgrounds. But then again what would expect from the RS
 

catcherintherye said:
Liverpool were formed on the back of the Liverpool Orange Lodge Association. Houlding sat on both boards. Most of Liverpool's board were comprised of the majority of Liverpool's Orange Lodge and Conservative club.

This was not true for Everton, who had significant Irish representation that continued to be the case in the post war years. What I find fascinating was while at Board Level the distinction was as pronounced as any rivalry Britain (or the closest to Glasgow) that never filtered down into the fans attitudes.

You are correct though. Hating the Irish back then had a different meaning to today, where the toxic nature of such feeling has ebbed away. Hating the Irish then meant hating immigrants, the poorest and most dispossessed in a community. Everton's own welcoming attitude towards the Irish underpinned a community spirit, to reach out beyond our traditional base to welcome others and it's something we should never underestimate or forget.

It's what made the whole "Everton are white" nonsense of the 90's all the more unpalatable as it is in actuality not the case. It also allowed Liverpool and the media to portray us as historically a bunch of Neanderthal bigots and eradicate a very proud tradition. The fact Lawrensen can casually throw out the "Everton were tories" line sums this up.

In spite of SOS and the vogue communitarian drunken ramblings of your Aldo's of this world the reality is very different. Liverpool was a club formed by wealthy, elitist landowning businessmen who were consumed by hatred of an immigrant population. They were formed by a landowner who tried to screw over the tenants of his establishment, and when they stood up to him and fought back responded by trying to destroy them. He called upon most pathetic elements of the existing club, as well as similarly minded (largely Protestant) labour from areas like Scotland to help him achieve this.

There are words to describe people like that, and that word is scabs. They are a football club formed out of the essence of hate, using the scum of society and scab labour to rival the existing inclusive rival football team. Never let that be forgotten.
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Nice post. I can't really improve on the attached article below. Suffice to say there are plenty of sound RS fans as well as the many idiots.

After the 0-5 in 1982 we (Dublin ESC)were warned by the police that the "Orange from the Kop" were going around looking for Fenians and it wasn't to shake hands and have a pint!

http://toffeeweb.com/season/09-10/comment/fan/RedBlueGreenOrange.pdf
 
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Big day for a big Toffee, his last match on Irish soil.
 

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Houlding was a Tory and did use scab labour. Nothing surprising there given the context of the times. The city of Liverpool itself was largely Tory till 1964 in terms of parliamentary seats!

Houlding was also Orange. Again, hardly surprising. It was a popular allegiance in those very difficult times.

After that, the case remains to be proven in terms of how political or religious allegiance played any part in the make up of the fan base. Educated guesses can be made but much of the information you would need simply isn't available and what information there is would need a team of researchers to dig up.

I know Kopites used to (still do?) sing one of their songs to the tune of The Sash but I also know they sing one to the tune of Athenry. Doesn't really tell me much apart from the fact that Kopites sing a great deal. I know from my grandfather (let's assume he wasn't a liar or a fool) that Amhran na bhFiann was sung by a section of the crowd late teens / early 20's. Can anyone say with any certainty it wasn't also sung at Anfield?

There may come a time when a spotty obsessive in search of a Ph D can prove that Edward Carson was a frequent visitor to the Anfield Directors' Box or that Cathal Brugha was a Street End S T H, but I doubt it.
 


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