Farhad Moshiri

[BullensRoad]

It's hard to say isn't it. I don't think anyone knows how much will be converted, how much of the stadium has been already paid by Moshiri? I've seen people say we are in debt by 1 billion. If true and that's saying the whole stadium debt and about £250 million more is on us. I would hope it would be less than that but even so, like Wyness (& @BullensRoad above) said, the cost to build the stadium now would be beyond that value.

Whilst I wasn’t even using Wyness as a reference, everything has short up in the last few years.

I’m sure those more involved in the CS will clarify this on major projects.

 

[Goat]

No one said anything selling the stadium, it would be what any incoming owner would have potentially had to face had we not had a stadium. Therefore any debt south of the cost to build a new stadium still looks like a decent deal to any prospective buyer.

I will take your word on the total debt, I'm not sure how anyone truly knows at the moment though.

I havent got a clue mate.

 

[roy vernon]

Where are the Green links coming from? Please don’t say who I think.

Rights and media have Green linked to them on many occasions. Anyway, does it matter? The financing of the stadium has been an absolute shambles and at the moment it is a millstone around our necks, the stadium should be a huge plus, but, because of Moshiri's fiscal incompetence, it has the potential to be the thing that puts us into administration or liquidation.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Which brings us back to the point I should have highlighted, Everton fans will pay off the debt.

And I did say we needed a new Stadium, more income streams is very welcome and yes, it does make us more attractive to potential buyers in the future, once all the "noise" settles down.

Yeah of course we ultimately foot the bill but no one was just going to just donate the money.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Whilst I wasn’t even using Wyness as a reference, everything has short up in the last few years.

I’m sure those more involved in the CS will clarify this on major projects.

Yeah I agree. We just need to look at Casement Park for an example. Was originally quoted as £77 million is now possibly as much as 300. That's for a 32k using the typical materials you would see in a cheaper build such as St Mary's and alike.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

So much of this wall of text is absolute tripe it’s hard to know where to begin honestly.

Yeah it was Putin's fault that we signed a load of crap players and hired that kopite pig as manager.

 

[mistuhp]

What new stadium has been the catalyst for a great team?

We’ll have the 7th biggest capacity instead of the 10th. People seem to expect this to lead to some vast sea change on the pitch for some reason.

I get that a new stadium allows for some additional revenue streams, between non-football events, corporate boxes, etc., but man some people's lack of ability or willingness to look at the numbers is mind-boggling to me. Granted I literally am a Maths and Economics teacher, so my perspective will be different than most people's, but once you factor in actually paying for the thing it just doesn't add up. Yeah if the owner just plunked down the cash himself, it would be great, but the expenses involved in what is frankly an unnecessarily expensive stadium for its size are incredible.

The two parts beyond financing the build that really get to me are that:
1) Unless I'm misunderstanding things, the new stadium really can't be expanded for capacity; if that's the case, 56,000 is probably 5-10,000 seats too small, and
2) I don't see how the amount of dates available to make major revenue hauls from giant non-football events would make anywhere near the necessary impact to save the numbers on this.

The stadium thing really does remind me of some of those awful transfer decisions of 2015-2019 in that in the rush from some presumably good news, there were some people out there who popped up at the time to go "Spending that much money on [insert Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Bolasie, Schneiderlin here] is a bad idea," or "Spending any money at all on [insert Williams, Niasse, or Funes Mori here] is a bad idea," including in some cases people who seemed to know more about those players than the club's management did, and those people were met with pretty significant resistance in the general fan base. Come to think of it, it's similar to the tenure of a recent former Chairman, as well.
I should stop ranting, but I wish some people still defending the owner would realize it's not like the only options out there were this and staying at Goodison as-is. Ending up in what is quite possibly the most expensive option possible was directly a decision by ownership, and the club's financial problems over the coming decades will not be because they built something, but because of this owner's specific decisions.

 

[Dixieslaces]

I get that a new stadium allows for some additional revenue streams, between non-football events, corporate boxes, etc., but man some people's lack of ability or willingness to look at the numbers is mind-boggling to me. Granted I literally am a Maths and Economics teacher, so my perspective will be different than most people's, but once you factor in actually paying for the thing it just doesn't add up. Yeah if the owner just plunked down the cash himself, it would be great, but the expenses involved in what is frankly an unnecessarily expensive stadium for its size are incredible.

The two parts beyond financing the build that really get to me are that:
1) Unless I'm misunderstanding things, the new stadium really can't be expanded for capacity; if that's the case, 56,000 is probably 5-10,000 seats too small, and
2) I don't see how the amount of dates available to make major revenue hauls from giant non-football events would make anywhere near the necessary impact to save the numbers on this.

The stadium thing really does remind me of some of those awful transfer decisions of 2015-2019 in that in the rush from some presumably good news, there were some people out there who popped up at the time to go "Spending that much money on [insert Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Bolasie, Schneiderlin here] is a bad idea," or "Spending any money at all on [insert Williams, Niasse, or Funes Mori here] is a bad idea," including in some cases people who seemed to know more about those players than the club's management did, and those people were met with pretty significant resistance in the general fan base. Come to think of it, it's similar to the tenure of a recent former Chairman, as well.
I should stop ranting, but I wish some people still defending the owner would realize it's not like the only options out there were this and staying at Goodison as-is. Ending up in what is quite possibly the most expensive option possible was directly a decision by ownership, and the club's financial problems over the coming decades will not be because they built something, but because of this owner's specific decisions.

 

[Wizard]

I’ve said this before but I feel like Moshiri and Usmanov’s investment in us was supposed to be a bit like what Man City’s owners have done in Manchester. Obviously they are way richer and were gifted a stadium. But they have regenerated an area of Manchester which was pretty rubbish.

I think Moshiri and Usmanov saw the stadium as an opportunity not just for Everton, but for themselves to potentially get involved in regenerating the whole northern docks. I think them buying the Liver Building shows they were interested in Liverpool as a city rather than just Everton as a club in it.

Then the war happened and Usmanov’s taps were turned off. So Moshiri is left with the club and the new stadium but not enough money to move the project even further.

I may well be wrong and happy to be told so but that’s always been my take on it. It was a potentially great investment that has gone sour now that the real money behind it has been pulled.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I get that a new stadium allows for some additional revenue streams, between non-football events, corporate boxes, etc., but man some people's lack of ability or willingness to look at the numbers is mind-boggling to me. Granted I literally am a Maths and Economics teacher, so my perspective will be different than most people's, but once you factor in actually paying for the thing it just doesn't add up. Yeah if the owner just plunked down the cash himself, it would be great, but the expenses involved in what is frankly an unnecessarily expensive stadium for its size are incredible.

The two parts beyond financing the build that really get to me are that:
1) Unless I'm misunderstanding things, the new stadium really can't be expanded for capacity; if that's the case, 56,000 is probably 5-10,000 seats too small, and
2) I don't see how the amount of dates available to make major revenue hauls from giant non-football events would make anywhere near the necessary impact to save the numbers on this.

The stadium thing really does remind me of some of those awful transfer decisions of 2015-2019 in that in the rush from some presumably good news, there were some people out there who popped up at the time to go "Spending that much money on [insert Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Bolasie, Schneiderlin here] is a bad idea," or "Spending any money at all on [insert Williams, Niasse, or Funes Mori here] is a bad idea," including in some cases people who seemed to know more about those players than the club's management did, and those people were met with pretty significant resistance in the general fan base. Come to think of it, it's similar to the tenure of a recent former Chairman, as well.
I should stop ranting, but I wish some people still defending the owner would realize it's not like the only options out there were this and staying at Goodison as-is. Ending up in what is quite possibly the most expensive option possible was directly a decision by ownership, and the club's financial problems over the coming decades will not be because they built something, but because of this owner's specific decisions.

BM is 52,888 capacity. Whether the capacity is too small or not is another question altogether. Would we sell out a 65k week in, week out, and how much more would it cost for that capacity? When money was no object we all agreed it should have been bigger, now people are concerned about the total debt we are in and current interest rates - so perhaps they got it right by accident.

Lowball estimate the extra 9000 GA seats will bring in around 7 million pa.
Just the premium seating offerings are looking at making the money we get in total at Goodison for matchday (15ish million). Although just over a 1000 of those seats come from the Goodison total to make the 5k available at BM, so there will be a deduction there.

If we say those two things alone bring in an extra 20 million, before we account for the uplift in prices for the rest of the 38k, more people spending money at the stadium due to the better facilities. Presumably giving up the Everton one store and the extra maintenance expenses for an aging stadium. It also doesn't account for cup games and the non matchday revenue, where tours, concerts and other events, alongside the bars and the restaurant/cafe/museum are going to generate previously unimaginable amounts compares to Goodison.

Then the big thing, sponsorship. Generally we'll see a big increase across the board as companies will be much more likely to want to be associated with such a building. Then the stadium naming rights, obviously this is where the plan has gone downhill a fair bit as we were due to get 27 million a year from USM. Our alternative could be as low as 7m but could easily be 10 to 15m if our marketing people do their job.

The potential is there with a few home cup ties and some large summer concerts to push around 50-60 million in income.

The question then comes down to how much the final debt figure we will have to cover. Obviously at the moment it is covered by several lenders at astronomical interest rates. The first and most important job of any new owner is to consolidate this and turn it into a fixed long term mortgage. If they can do this for less than say 40m pa repayment then we start to make money compared to remaining where we are.

 

[Goat]

BM is 52,888 capacity. Whether the capacity is too small or not is another question altogether. Would we sell out a 65k week in, week out, and how much more would it cost for that capacity? When money was no object we all agreed it should have been bigger, now people are concerned about the total debt we are in and current interest rates - so perhaps they got it right by accident.

Lowball estimate the extra 9000 GA seats will bring in around 7 million pa.
Just the premium seating offerings are looking at making the money we get in total at Goodison for matchday (15ish million). Although just over a 1000 of those seats come from the Goodison total to make the 5k available at BM, so there will be a deduction there.

If we say those two things alone bring in an extra 20 million, before we account for the uplift in prices for the rest of the 38k, more people spending money at the stadium due to the better facilities. Presumably giving up the Everton one store and the extra maintenance expenses for an aging stadium. It also doesn't account for cup games and the non matchday revenue, where tours, concerts and other events, alongside the bars and the restaurant/cafe/museum are going to generate previously unimaginable amounts compares to Goodison.

Then the big thing, sponsorship. Generally we'll see a big increase across the board as companies will be much more likely to want to be associated with such a building. Then the stadium naming rights, obviously this is where the plan has gone downhill a fair bit as we were due to get 27 million a year from USM. Our alternative could be as low as 7m but could easily be 10 to 15m if our marketing people do their job.

The potential is there with a few home cup ties and some large summer concerts to push around 50-60 million in income.

The question then comes down to how much the final debt figure we will have to cover. Obviously at the moment it is covered by several lenders at astronomical interest rates. The first and most important job of any new owner is to consolidate this and turn it into a fixed long term mortgage. If they can do this for less than say 40m pa repayment then we start to make money compared to remaining where we are.

Good post mate.

The Stadium Sponsor is the biggy for me, as we know Spurs are still very much struggling in that department, but then maybe they have lofty goals than us, cash wise.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Good post mate.

The Stadium Sponsor is the biggy for me, as we know Spurs are still very much struggling in that department, but then maybe they have lofty goals than us, cash wise.

That's my take on it, they have had offers but can afford to sit and wait to hit the jackpot. Probably will get what they want too.

 

[matty1878]

That's my take on it, they have had offers but can afford to sit and wait to hit the jackpot. Probably will get what they want too.

and what about us?

 

[ToffeeTim]

Good post mate.

The Stadium Sponsor is the biggy for me, as we know Spurs are still very much struggling in that department, but then maybe they have lofty goals than us, cash wise.

Spurs also have the guaranteed NFL games every year so access to other markets through that. So they will be waiting for the right offer.

 

[The binman chronicles]

and what about us?

I expect we will have to settle. Hopefully we can still get a decent deal. 100 million over 10 years wouldn't be too bad, fingers crossed by some luck we can get more.