Financial Fair Play investigation

[Bluemersey]

We really are up a creek without a paddle, it wouldn't feel so bad if we had a decent winning team either to fall back on.

 

[gorgeousgeorgeEFC]

Three points against Spurs on Monday is worth 10x more than this going round in circles ill-informed and half-informed nonsense.

Survive this season and then let's see the commission try and kill us next season if they dare. My guess is they wont and that they have no intention to.

Absolutely spot on davek

 

[MrGrumpy]

Liquidate the club already and save the pain

 

[Zatara]

What Moshiri has post Usmanov being cancelled in the west, nobody knows really. Even if Uzzy has managed to stash away a few billion secretly, would he really risk making those looking for it aware of some of it to invest in a championship team thats lost money hand over fist for years? Ultimately the value of the club depends massively on what league its playing in. The value of our ground remains the same though. Thats why I think the fears of him selling off the club to the first bidder while hanging onto BMD (if/when it gets finished) has serious legs. We've seen previously with the likes of Portsmouth and Derby as to the level of charlatans that bid for clubs in financial trouble. If we get to that stage, who knows what the end game might be.

A simple google search would show Moshiri's net worth at $3.1billion.

He has made a lot of money since buying the club especially with investments (which I posted about) during covid.

He's already invested circa $1billion into Everton. He could quite easily throw another $1billion into the club.

Due to FFP though that ironically wouldnt benefit us on the pitch. The only way to do so would be through the stadium and commercial deals etc to increase the revenue.

 

[Zatara]

We really are up a creek without a paddle, it wouldn't feel so bad if we had a decent winning team either to fall back on.

Disagree. Others will have looked into this more deeply but I imagine if these 2020/21 accounts show us at circa £25-35mil FFP negative. The next accounts will include the Gordon and Kean sales so would perhaps not be far off that.

We'd either already be in the clear for this summer or next summer to 'go again' so to speak.

The key is to beat Spurs and continue to generate points while this drama unfolds.

 

[Bluemersey]

Disagree. Others will have looked into this more deeply but I imagine if these 2020/21 accounts show us at circa £25-35mil FFP negative. The next accounts will include the Gordon and Kean sales so would perhaps not be far off that.

We'd either already be in the clear for this summer or next summer to 'go again' so to speak.

The key is to beat Spurs and continue to generate points while this drama unfolds.

I'm all for positive thinking, hope you're assessment is spot on

 

[Neiler]

Disagree. Others will have looked into this more deeply but I imagine if these 2020/21 accounts show us at circa £25-35mil FFP negative. The next accounts will include the Gordon and Kean sales so would perhaps not be far off that.

We'd either already be in the clear for this summer or next summer to 'go again' so to speak.

The key is to beat Spurs and continue to generate points while this drama unfolds.

I assumed this also up to this yesterday mate.

But I dont think that’s the case at all now. If we hadn’t of sold Richarlison and Digne etc for 67.7 mill - we would have made a loss of 112 mill. We sold both and are still above the P/S threshold and lost 44.7 mill despite their sales.

I assumed we were above the P/S threshold this financial year selling Gordon and Kean - I don’t think we are, we likely have made a similar amount of innand around 67 mill, this money isn’t being reinvested it’s going to pay down losses - it’s not profit at all - it’s just going into a black hole and we loose our better players.

These accounts really are poor, hugely concerning and disappointing.

 

[mccole]

If COVID can impact us and affect our finances then surely the war with Russia and Ukraine will too especially when we have been "forced" to remove commercial sponsors.

I don't think it would be a huge difference but still impacts ourselves

I am fully aware that is the MOST Tory excuse ever.

 

[GoldenToffee]

I assumed this also up to this yesterday mate.

But I dont think that’s the case at all now. If we hadn’t of sold Richarlison and Digne etc for 67.7 mill - we would have made a loss of 112 mill. We sold both and are still above the P/S threshold and lost 44.7 mill despite their sales.

I assumed we were above the P/S threshold this financial year selling Gordon and Kean - I don’t think we are, we likely have made a similar amount of innand around 67 mill, this money isn’t being reinvested it’s going to pay down losses - it’s not profit at all - it’s just going into a black hole and we loose our better players.

These accounts really are poor, hugely concerning and disappointing.

The accounts are a disgrace but that's what happens when you guarantee the likes of Michael Keane 75k wages for six years, and sign players of the ilk of Neal Maupay and Dwight McNeil for a combined 30m and 100k a week between them.

That's not even mentioning having Vanorama League players like Davies taking home about 30k a week, being unable to sell the likes of 120k a week Yerry Mina and having him sit on the bench, and needing to put a good £10-15m aside each season to pay off managers and their staff.

Did we even mention paying most of Gomes', Gbamin's and Alli's wages while they're away from the club? AND knowing we'll almost certainly be doing that again next season due to the obscene contracts they were given.

The club is an utter shambles.

 

[WestStandLower]

But politely mate, you have just defeated your own argument.

There are a multitude of arguments that could be made, in addition to the one you have outlined. We could argue the commission is not independent. That the PL members are acting with a conflict of interest. That the findings are not consistent with other offences etc.

I'm not saying any of this could happen. I'm merely pointing out the possibility exists.

If you're too close minded to see it, that's on you I'm afraid.

This is the same organisation, that has let another side breach over 100 rules, for over a decade, without a single punishment. They need to be seen to show that a punishment for us breaking 1 rule is proportionate to that.

City argued ( unsuccessfully) in the HC that the PLs arbitration panel wasn’t competent of carrying out arbitration and that irrespective it would show bias. Quite simply they, City, had their backsides kicked.

Of course Everton could try the same route and make the same arguments but it’s highly unlikely that the Courts would rule in Everton’s favour that is if it even got to a hearing. If Everton went down this route it’s probable that other charges will follow as such tactics would almost certainly be viewed as not acting in good faith.

You really need to park the City charges because theirs is a far more complex matter in that many of the charges are far more complex and are hugely subjective. Everton’s charge will be based purely on the numbers presented. Ok there will no doubt be debate around COVID losses but the numbers presented by other clubs will have or will aid the tribunal or come to a view or maybe their is agreement between the PL and Everton over such matters.

Everton are one of the 21 shareholders (20 clubs + the FA) all have signed up to the regulatory process just as all members of the FA have, the EFL clubs have, The NL have, The Rugby Union have , The Rugby league Cricket etc etc have signed up to their governing body processes . No club participating, no individual player is forced into membership and had Everton, City or indeed any club had concerns around the whole process then the time to advocate change isn’t when you are charged.

 

[Bez2k2k]

I assumed this also up to this yesterday mate.

But I dont think that’s the case at all now. If we hadn’t of sold Richarlison and Digne etc for 67.7 mill - we would have made a loss of 112 mill. We sold both and are still above the P/S threshold and lost 44.7 mill despite their sales.

I assumed we were above the P/S threshold this financial year selling Gordon and Kean - I don’t think we are, we likely have made a similar amount of innand around 67 mill, this money isn’t being reinvested it’s going to pay down losses - it’s not profit at all - it’s just going into a black hole and we loose our better players.

These accounts really are poor, hugely concerning and disappointing.

Irony is these two players aren’t and weren’t our best players. They are young players who we took a gamble on and thus other clubs have with them. It really is the way to go business wise. Liverpool made a fortune selling off the likes of Solanke, Shey Ojo, and many more. All of whom never had the careers that was expected.

It does make me wonder why we bought Garner for 15m and Patterson for what about 12m when Everton and the Premier League knew we couldn’t really afford it.

 

[Neiler]

Irony is these two players aren’t and weren’t our best players. They are young players who we took a gamble on and thus other clubs have with them. It really is the way to go business wise. Liverpool made a fortune selling off the likes of Solanke, Shey Ojo, and many more. All of whom never had the careers that was expected.

It does make me wonder why we bought Garner for 15m and Patterson for what about 12m when Everton and the Premier League knew we couldn’t really afford it.

Would disagree that is was good business mate, i dont think there was discernable plan i think its just circumstance, we need to sell anything that nots nailed down really, Kean and Gordon were just two we could. This summer it could be Onana and or Pickford.

Garner wont have come into the cited years account - Patterson would mind.

 

[WestStandLower]

That's not a punishment.

If you are on trial for murder, your sentence is not that you have to stop murdering people.

Sorry I think you are mixing up tribunals and Courts of Law. Even then many courts don’t hand out punishment they hand out rulings.

The PL process is now in full swing Everton will possibly want to take advantage of every opportunity the process affords but once the tribunal sits the opportunity to take the matters to a Court of Law are limited and their arguments would have to be on a point of law

Professional bodies such as the BMA such as the Law Society have their own regulatory bodies where the members of tribunals are appointed by the organisation.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yeah however they were a huge outlier at the level, see also Stoke City as an EFL equivalent.

The League have a right to review.
Comparable info maybe would be one such avenue.

Indirect losses and this isn't just Everton but they feel hypothetical and speculative. Even some of the more straight forward losses such as Impairment of Player Registration attributed to Covid feels like there is an element of trying it on a bit.

Oh Everton may have had experts who back their corner and or auditors but I assume that the PL would have auditors and or experts. Then it's up to the IDC to decide.

The league had a chance to review, did so, and accepted them.

 

[catcherintherye]

Can't comment on the PL too much but I recall that the Middlesbrough claim v Derby and or the EFL would have been via Arbitration. A mechanism that all clubs and the League signed up too.

Presumably any hypothetical case say Burnley v Everton if Everton were found in breach or Burnley v the PL would be heard via Arbitration assuming there is a similar agreement.

Again maybe, but not definitely.