2021/22 Frank Lampard

[BlueToff]

We don't have any good players, so even though it sounds very football manager we should be entertaining offers for absolutely everyone this summer. We should be looking at shifting the more 'sellable' assets we have first because they'll fetch the most money, allowing us not only to replace them with maybe two players but also improving our balance sheet as well. They are also far easier to shift that the likes of Keane and Gomes, who will both probably be here until their contracts expire.

Yes, the circumstances of allowing Benitez to exile Digne was laughable, but the theory of selling when we did wasn't at all. He was playing appallingly, his performance away at Villa is still the worst individual performance any Everton player has put in this season and he's been gone for nearly three months.

When someone offers you a big bag of dough for a 28 year old on £120k a week who's absolutely phoning it in, you don't ask questions. You take it and run.

We do have good players. These players were 4th this time last year.

We don't have amazing players. And they are clearly all not 'world class' but to say we don't have good players is simply incorrect. We are massively underachieving and should not be in this position, even though it's fully deserved. We should not be in a relegation battle and the fact that we are speaks to poor management, woeful underperformance and a dreadful running of the club.

Just because the better players are easy to shift isn't an excuse. It was the excuse people made for Brands. Thelwell's job is literally to get rid of the players we don't want.

Yes, we will have to sell players we would like to keep in an ideal world but that doesn't mean you just jump to that instead of doing the legwork of legging the other dolts who are the actual problem.

On Digne, the theory of selling when we did in terms of his career was fine. It wasn't fine in the middle of the season when it was well documented and proven that a big part of his drop off was playing under a dinosaur manager.

I'd have had no issue with selling Digne if a) we were stable in January or b) we'd have waited until the summer. But neither of those things happens and we now have a LB, that we spent a cool £17m (17 MILLION) on, who can't get in over a CB and JJK.

 

[Lanolin]

This squad doesn’t lack the talent, if just doesn’t have leadership in anyway, and the years of neglect in the market, failing to add quality shows immensely, when we have no real reliable centre halves, no bite in midfield and we’re relying on a Winger to play upfront and score us goals.

So it does lack talent then?

 

[BlueToff]

I think January is the wrong time to sell first team players, so that's why I didn't really get it. Especially when we tried to replace him with someone playing in a far inferior league. The deal in isolation, to sell a 28/29 year old for 25m, was fine. The problem was we had no back up and the replacement looks far off the quality needed for this league.

The time to overhaul is during the summer. Regardless of what happens, we need to see a mass exodus. That means taking whatever is offered and not pricing our woeful players out of the market.

It's very much like the Patterson deal.

In isolation, in theory for a well-run club, it's absolutely fine. A young RB coming in who could nail down the position for a few years.

But when you put it into context it was a mental signing.

 

[toffee-L]

I think January is the wrong time to sell first team players, so that's why I didn't really get it. Especially when we tried to replace him with someone playing in a far inferior league. The deal in isolation, to sell a 28/29 year old for 25m, was fine. The problem was we had no back up and the replacement looks far off the quality needed for this league.

The time to overhaul is during the summer. Regardless of what happens, we need to see a mass exodus. That means taking whatever is offered and not pricing our woeful players out of the market.

Beggars can't be choosers in a scenario like that I don't think. We had the chance to get rid of a high earner who was playing miserably with the chance to replace not only him but also bring in a player for what was seen as our biggest problem position with two much younger players. Now it obviously hasn't worked out yet, but we'd be no better off with Digne in the team. He had a very similar attitude and willingness to down tools like several others in this team, so selling him certainly won't determine whether we stay or go down so I still have absolutely no problem with us doing it.

And yes absolutely. I fear the Iwobi's, Keane's and Gomes' off the world will still be completely unmovable but we need to try our absolute damned-est to get them out.

 

[HeltSkelt]

for as much as it isn't his fault, Lampard looks out of ideas already.

But it is his fault. He took on the job, surely he knew the challenge ahead and will (you'd hope) have prepared for it by putting together a backroom team with relevant skills to support him in that task.

There are some good players in our team. They aren't performing. That might be because they are idle/lazy/morally shot/whatever and of course its fine for us to slag them off on a forum. But for any manager, at this end of the season the number one task of any manager coming in has be to stabilise the ship, get players positive and motivated, get the entire club pulling in the same direction.

Hodgson at Watford hasn't entirely sorted things, but they are grinding out the odd draw when they would have lost, and a few unexpected wins, they seem to have (a little) hope. Marsch at Leeds seems to have created a happy club again after Bielsa had lost the plot and broken them and in the last two games it has (just) paid off. Eddie Howe has (with a bit of financial doping) turned Newcastle around, and they were in a way worse state than we were.

None of them came in and hung their own players out to dry. They recognised that it was there responsibility as managers to motivate the players on the training pitch and in the dressing room. And if they didnt manage that it was on them. A managers job is to manage the players FFS. Not to moan that they won't be managed.

You'd hope Frank's skills extend to more than responsibility deflecting post match interviews. But there is no evidence so far either here or at his previous clubs that that is the case. At Derby he failed despite having the budget and quality loanees to walk the championship; and the drinking culture he tolerated amongst the players led to problems down the line. At Chelsea he had all the talent in the world, but didnt really make much of it and was sacked before too long. He didnt show any special talent for management in either role, and its only down to his golden generation pundit mates that he has any credibility at all.

He was a decent player, but not many decent players have made it as quality managers in the Premier League. Still astounded he was hired. No idea how we got ourselves to the place where he seemed the right option. Mass psychosis maybe. Accept that sacking another manager would be ludicrous (even if we could afford it, given the likely costs associated with rebuilding next year whatever division we are in). But how did we ever end up here?

 

[Sheedy's right knee.]

The problem doesn’t lie wholly with the tactics. We went into the game on Sunday good out of the blocks pressing well creating chances and causing problems. We concede an extremely soft goal and rather than resetting and someone on the pitch getting the team together and fighting we morphed into a team desperate not too concede another and we gave Palace the confidence. We started on Sunday similar to the games against Leeds and Brentford where we got comfortable wins. We need a couple of leaders on the pitch to steady the ship when things go wrong but we don’t seem to have any.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I actually think it’s a case of the players just not being good enough certainly for the 97-98 season.

Look at that 97-98 season. Claus Thomson, Mitch Ward, Farrelly, Carl Tiler, Earl Barrett an ageing and declining Southall, Short and Watson.

That side of 97-98, went away and got some massive results, home to Arsenal, Leeds, Liverpool, Blackburn and Chelsea were hugely significant in staying up.

This squad doesn’t lack the talent, if just doesn’t have leadership in anyway, and the years of neglect in the market, failing to add quality shows immensely, when we have no real reliable centre halves, no bite in midfield and we’re relying on a Winger to play upfront and score us goals.

97-98 was writing on the wall for me, that’s the worst Everton team I’ve seen, they defied everything and stayed up.

This side is the most expensive in history and we’re relying on Anthony Gordon to save us.

I think this squad does lack talent.

Coleman Keane Kenny Holgate are bad as it gets in terms of defenders.

Allan is the only midfielder we have who can look after a ball. The rest have terrible touches.

We’ve got a bit more quality up front but even then Richy and DCL aren’t exactly dovetailing like Bergkamp and Henry, they’re both pretty one dimensional and just want to get on the end of stuff.

I’d say it’s league 1 at the back, championship in the middle, premier league upfront.

Hopefully that’s enough to just about stay up.

The Mina injury really has killed us this season.

 

[blu87554]

But it is his fault. He took on the job, surely he knew the challenge ahead and will (you'd hope) have prepared for it by putting together a backroom team with relevant skills to support him in that task.

There are some good players in our team. They aren't performing. That might be because they are idle/lazy/morally shot/whatever and of course its fine for us to slag them off on a forum. But for any manager, at this end of the season the number one task of any manager coming in has be to stabilise the ship, get players positive and motivated, get the entire club pulling in the same direction.

But how did we ever end up here?

This.

Its our job to slam them left and right, but the manager to at least publicly, be reasonable.

I have to pedal back my former complaints about Lampard in comparisment to Ancelotti. While overall he was much more mellow, Carlo, too, went in with a straight leg in this interview at the end of the 2021 season:

"Ancelotti, usually so protective of his players, added: “I don’t want to nominate players but most of them, the commitment for the game was absolutely not good. It was unacceptable because the game was so important. I hope for a reaction tomorrow.”

and

"“That is for all the players. There is no player I can force to stay here. But I told them this recently. They know. They know. If someone is not happy they have to leave. An unhappy player is not going to be a good part in this project.”

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/frank-lampard.114412/

And for all the Benitez haters, he concluded the same thing. He actually, literarly said the same thing. "If you dont want to fight for Everton, come snow, come rain, then go away."

Maybe Lampards outburst is understandable, if not constructive. Maybe we just have to slug it out till the end of the season and have a major clear out. Its
the board that put these clowns upon us.*

I remain supporting Lampard. If we go down, I hope he stays. Maybe him experimenting is for the better. There is nothing left to lose. No allardyce is gonna turn this around anyway.


* I love Carlo but he, too made a mistake by extending Keanes contract.

 

[toffee-L]

We do have good players. These players were 4th this time last year.

We don't have amazing players. And they are clearly all not 'world class' but to say we don't have good players is simply incorrect. We are massively underachieving and should not be in this position, even though it's fully deserved. We should not be in a relegation battle and the fact that we are speaks to poor management, woeful underperformance and a dreadful running of the club.

Just because the better players are easy to shift isn't an excuse. It was the excuse people made for Brands. Thelwell's job is literally to get rid of the players we don't want.

Yes, we will have to sell players we would like to keep in an ideal world but that doesn't mean you just jump to that instead of doing the legwork of legging the other dolts who are the actual problem.

On Digne, the theory of selling when we did in terms of his career was fine. It wasn't fine in the middle of the season when it was well documented and proven that a big part of his drop off was playing under a dinosaur manager.

I'd have had no issue with selling Digne if a) we were stable in January or b) we'd have waited until the summer. But neither of those things happens and we now have a LB, that we spent a cool £17m (17 MILLION) on, who can't get in over a CB and JJK.

4th under an all-time great manager, playing exclusively behind closed doors and playing some of the most god awful togger the Premier League has ever seen? That season was a sham and this squad got completely found out towards the end of it. Their true level is what we are witnessing now.

Trying to sell the dregs of the Steve Walsh era is the only shred of sympathy I can spare for Marcel Brands - who is a monstrous charlatan and his name is not nearly attached to this catastrophe as much as it should be. Thelwell is going to have similar problems excorcising this squad of all of Brands' failures, when you give the likes of Yerry Mina £140k or stick Michael Keane on a new shiny 5 year deal, you're usually stuck with them for the long haul I'm afraid.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the Digne issue I think. As for Mykolenko, I think laying into the lad for not displacing Godfrey (who Ancelotti happily used as a left back and shunted Digne further forwards on several occasions) or Kenny (Lampard needs to own that one) is a little disingenuous as it doesn't factor in a rather unfortunate series of events playing out in the lad's home country that might be distracting him a little bit.

 

[Baines' left foot]

I think arteta is a great example of a coach doing things that look weird but given time work

Good point. He was hanging on by a thread at times. He’s doing very well now.

 

[Papa Shango]

We do have good players. These players were 4th this time last year.

We don't have amazing players. And they are clearly all not 'world class' but to say we don't have good players is simply incorrect. We are massively underachieving and should not be in this position, even though it's fully deserved. We should not be in a relegation battle and the fact that we are speaks to poor management, woeful underperformance and a dreadful running of the club.

Just because the better players are easy to shift isn't an excuse. It was the excuse people made for Brands. Thelwell's job is literally to get rid of the players we don't want.

Yes, we will have to sell players we would like to keep in an ideal world but that doesn't mean you just jump to that instead of doing the legwork of legging the other dolts who are the actual problem.

On Digne, the theory of selling when we did in terms of his career was fine. It wasn't fine in the middle of the season when it was well documented and proven that a big part of his drop off was playing under a dinosaur manager.

I'd have had no issue with selling Digne if a) we were stable in January or b) we'd have waited until the summer. But neither of those things happens and we now have a LB, that we spent a cool £17m (17 MILLION) on, who can't get in over a CB and JJK.

We have a couple of good players. Most of them can probably do a job in the right scenario elsewhere.

What we don't have is a team or a squad. A bunch of individuals who can not adapt to any slight problems and a squad with holes all over the place.

Annoyingly I think we can push on next season, some big contracts are up and the manager should be able to bring in some new players. Of course the massive fly in the ointment is what division we will be in whilst doing this.

 

[Neiler]

We do have good players. These players were 4th this time last year.

We don't have amazing players. And they are clearly all not 'world class' but to say we don't have good players is simply incorrect. We are massively underachieving and should not be in this position, even though it's fully deserved. We should not be in a relegation battle and the fact that we are speaks to poor management, woeful underperformance and a dreadful running of the club.

Just because the better players are easy to shift isn't an excuse. It was the excuse people made for Brands. Thelwell's job is literally to get rid of the players we don't want.

Yes, we will have to sell players we would like to keep in an ideal world but that doesn't mean you just jump to that instead of doing the legwork of legging the other dolts who are the actual problem.

On Digne, the theory of selling when we did in terms of his career was fine. It wasn't fine in the middle of the season when it was well documented and proven that a big part of his drop off was playing under a dinosaur manager.

I'd have had no issue with selling Digne if a) we were stable in January or b) we'd have waited until the summer. But neither of those things happens and we now have a LB, that we spent a cool £17m (17 MILLION) on, who can't get in over a CB and JJK.

Was madness selling Jamo and Digne though mate - Kean to for my money to, like really stupid, you dont sell your best players and expect to get better. It wont be widely accepted here but Gylfi is a massive loss as well.

Essestially we've gone through a season without a playmaker, a replacement center forward and sold our best full back to a rival, who then a couple of weeks later got an assist for his new team to deny us a point.

Its pretty clear we didnt have any masterminds to be trusted player trading or squad building. Im looking at Josh Bowler and what hes doing and saying WTF.

Those deals were stupid, people will say wages and we needed the money, that money is useless in the Championship and the ultimate loss could be 100s of millions.

What did we expect to happen......much of our current woes are down to our own stupidity.

 

[MikeH72]

Scorch the lot Frank.

 

[Saint Domingo]

This.

Its our job to slam them left and right, but the manager to at least publicly, be reasonable.

I have to pedal back my former complaints about Lampard in comparisment to Ancelotti. While overall he was much more mellow, Carlo, too, went in with a straight leg in this interview at the end of the 2021 season:

"Ancelotti, usually so protective of his players, added: “I don’t want to nominate players but most of them, the commitment for the game was absolutely not good. It was unacceptable because the game was so important. I hope for a reaction tomorrow.”

and

"“That is for all the players. There is no player I can force to stay here. But I told them this recently. They know. They know. If someone is not happy they have to leave. An unhappy player is not going to be a good part in this project.”

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/frank-lampard.114412/

And for all the Benitez haters, he concluded the same thing. He actually, literarly said the same thing. "If you dont want to fight for Everton, come snow, come rain, then go away."

Maybe Lampards outburst is understandable, if not constructive. Maybe we just have to slug it out till the end of the season and have a major clear out. Its
the board that put these clowns upon us.*

I remain supporting Lampard. If we go down, I hope he stays. Maybe him experimenting is for the better. There is nothing left to lose. No allardyce is gonna turn this around anyway.


* I love Carlo but he, too made a mistake by extending Keanes contract.

All our recent managers have all said the same thing. They’re not all stupid. It’s obvious what the problem is at Everton but we won’t give any manager long enough to fix it.

 

[HeltSkelt]

Good point. He was hanging on by a thread at times. He’s doing very well now.

There is a difference. Arteta is fairly humble and spent time learning as an assistant to Guardiola. Lampard thought he could jump straight into management with John Terry as his assistant. At least that useless [redacted] he hasn't turned up here as well. Wish the timing had been right for us to have got Arteta