2021/22 Frank Lampard

[HeltSkelt]

Terry was never an assistant or any part of Lampard's backroom staff, in any of his jobs.

Lol got him mixed up with that other Chelsea scumbag Jody Morris

 

[MikeH72]

Yeah that's fine, but we finished 10th then anyway. We're a mid-table team. A mid-table squad. Maybe even 11th-14th. We shouldn't be in a relegation battle.

That's not a defence of the players, btw, but to say we don't have any 'good' players is wrong because if that's the case then none of us have a right to be arsed that we keep getting slapped week in week out.

The reason people are arsed about getting slapped every week is the manner of the performances and application of the players, we’re not having a go at them for being bad footballers because that isn’t their fault. But they are very bad footballers and the rest of their careers will back that statement up.

 

[MikeH72]

You a make a fair point here. I do struggle to get my head round the fact that some people insist that the players are all crap and they don't try, but are then apparently shocked when we lose 1-0 to Wolves or whatever. It doesn't make an awful lot of sense.

You’d need to watch the games then to see what the difference is between a battling defeat and a game where the players just give up. If we lost 1-0 to Wolves but we peppered the goal and their keeper had the game of his life and we hit the post a couple of times it would’ve been quite a different reaction to the same result. Nobody, absolute nobody is shocked that we lost 1-0 to Wolves, but people are rightly furious about the manner of the performance.

 

[toffee-L]

Their true level isn't 4th or what we are witnessing now at all. They're a mid-table side, we all know it. However, it's been further stripped of quality (not that there was much) over the last year. However, mid-table teams have good players. Palace are mid-table, have good players. Same with Brighton, etc. And Everton, too, have good players. We should not be in this position. We do need a reset in the summer and yes that will involve selling the 'better' players and that's fine, as long as the actual turbo-gash goes too.

I don't know that at all. We've just been annihilated 4-0 by an actual mid table side. The only excuse you could give these players is that some of the ones who would be expected to feature in the first 11 have been injured for lengthy spells this season - but a lot of them are back now and we have a new manager and hardly look better for it.

We are 17th in the league after two thirds of the season because that is our level. You can fluke a cup but you can't fluke a league finish because the number of fixtures completely remove any anomalies. We've played three actual Championship sides this season and lost one, scraped past another and drew with the third (needing extra-time to win). This team is the absolute pits mate.

 

[Lanolin]

You’d need to watch the games then to see what the difference is between a battling defeat and a game where the players just give up. If we lost 1-0 to Wolves but we peppered the goal and their keeper had the game of his life and we hit the post a couple of times it would’ve been quite a different reaction to the same result. Nobody, absolute nobody is shocked that we lost 1-0 to Wolves, but people are rightly furious about the manner of the performance.

Yeah i normally just sit at the ground with my eyes closed Mike, i've never thought of watching the game maybe i'll give it a try next time.

 

[MikeH72]

Yeah i normally just sit at the ground with my eyes closed Mike, i've never thought of watching the game maybe i'll give it a try next time.

Ah, you must be able to understand why people were angry after Wolves then and it wasn’t due to looking at the result on a screen at the end of the match?

 

[Toffe3m4n]

For West Ham I think we have two options. The first option is to opt for something akin to what we played at Chelsea earlier in the season, so effectively a low & defensive 5-4-1..

Pickford

Coleman - Holgate - Keane - Branthwaite - Godfrey

Iwobi - Doucoure - Gomes - Gordon

DCL​

That team (except it was Simms for DCL) managed a draw that night. Kept it tight with Iwobi & Gordon also helping out defensively on their respective sides. This was also at a time when we had no Allan available.

The second option is to go with a flat back 4 and go 4-5-1 with the extra body in the midfield this time. With VDB back we could start with this..

Pickford

Coleman - Holgate - Keane - Godfrey

Iwobi - Van de Beek - Doucoure - Gomes - Gordon

DCL​

Again Iwobi & Gordon would drop in off the ball to help defensively on their sides. Then, rather than just have one outlet in Gomes, we also have VDB in there for the extra body in the middle of the pitch.

I reckon personally we look to start with the 5-4-1. If needs be, later on, we can either then switch to the 4-5-1 or even go 4-3-3 depending on how the game is going (i.e. if West Ham are looking vulnerable). We need to just not concede as our first priority.

Notice I've left out Richarlison in both lineups. I honestly think he needs to be benched, at least for West Ham. Reckon Gordon will be the fresher of the two after the international break and I think Gordon has just about earned his place over him considering that both have been out of the goals recently anyway. Also think, for now, Iwobi deserves the nod over Gray.

What Lampard actually opts to do in reality I have no idea, but I suspect Kenny would be involved in some capacity..

 

[gazzaa2]

Who are the players who are being called out? The likes of Coleman, Gordon, Richarlison, Allan, Townsend, Godfrey and even Keane are grafters who give their all, regardless of whether they're good enough or not.

We know Gomes is a nothing player and players like Doucore seem to turn up when they feel like it. Most of the team do try their best though, so I don't think it's fair to the majority of the team who do give their all. And for the ones who don't there's kids sat on the bench who will.

 

[Brennan]

Yeah i normally just sit at the ground with my eyes closed Mike, i've never thought of watching the game maybe i'll give it a try next time.

I wouldn’t bother…

 

[BlueToff]

The reason people are arsed about getting slapped every week is the manner of the performances and application of the players, we’re not having a go at them for being bad footballers because that isn’t their fault. But they are very bad footballers and the rest of their careers will back that statement up.

Well a good chunk of them are, I agree with that.

But we do have some who aren't and they haven't performed enough but in this league, had they performed better (being managed better too) we'd be safe.

 

[BlueToff]

I don't know that at all. We've just been annihilated 4-0 by an actual mid table side. The only excuse you could give these players is that some of the ones who would be expected to feature in the first 11 have been injured for lengthy spells this season - but a lot of them are back now and we have a new manager and hardly look better for it.

We are 17th in the league after two thirds of the season because that is our level. You can fluke a cup but you can't fluke a league finish because the number of fixtures completely remove any anomalies. We've played three actual Championship sides this season and lost one, scraped past another and drew with the third (needing extra-time to win). This team is the absolute pits mate.

Yes because we're woefully out of form in a terrible season but on paper - and I know full well it's not played on paper - we are safely a mid-table team.

Right now we aren't and there's loads of reasons for that but if we aren't underachieving by being 17th then nobody has a right to be angry.

 

[Lanolin]

Ah, you must be able to understand why people were angry after Wolves then and it wasn’t due to looking at the result on a screen at the end of the match?

You're either taking my point out of context or just misunderstanding it. I haven't said people shouldn't be angry at the Wolves result? I was angry at the Wolves result myself so it would be a bit of a weird take for me to go down that route. I'm talking about the people who insist - in all seriousness - that x, y and z are League One players and then also accuse them of 'downing tools'. Now i'm not being funny but if you've got a team full of league one players and they've downed tools, they ain't only losing 1-0 in the Premier League. Either they aren't that bad, or they are that bad and they're trying, both makes no sense. If you're not one of those people then my comment isn't aimed at you.

I've said a number of times, i'm not saying we have a team full of players giving 110% and ready to die for the shirt, of course we don't. I just don't necessarily believe that they're 'not trying' in the sense that lots of people do. The Newcastle game was proof enough for me, they worked hard, got a result after adversity, and looked genuinely elated at the goal and the final whistle, and loads of people come out and say 'play like that every week and they'll be fine' but the truth is they could so easily have lost and the same people would have come on saying they didn't try hard enough, despite the performance being exactly the same. There were people round me saying it during the game who then at full time were saying what a brilliant effort you can see Lampard's got them doing this, they responded to the crowd tonight etc etc. It's just become a default setting now to blame everything on attitude regardless of what happens.

For me, we have a squad massively lacking in quality, especially in key positions. We have almost nobody in the entire squad who can pass and who you would trust on the ball in tight situations. Our centre halves are genuinely terrible, and our only real goal threat seems to be massively unfit. I think the team is in a bit of a death spiral, they have absolutely no confidence at all and there is a severe lack of leadership. I think most of them do try, but not necessarily with the conviction of players who believe that what they're doing will have a positive outcome.

 

[BlueToff]

You a make a fair point here. I do struggle to get my head round the fact that some people insist that the players are all crap and they don't try, but are then apparently shocked when we lose 1-0 to Wolves or whatever. It doesn't make an awful lot of sense.

Exactly.

They aren't all crap, even if they really are crap at the moment, even though I couldn't care less if any of them get sold in the summer if we stay up (my whole point is I want the genuine gash ones to be the first ones booted not the less gash ones just because they're easier to sell).

It's been a mash of the worst things this season. Previous manager stripping us of any quality we had to play some archaic footy based entirely on one attacking option, massive financial issues, record signing disappearing for dreadful reasons, crippling injuries to key players, the rest of the players underperforming, all of that leading to massive confidence issues, fan unrest, clueless owner(s)...

All we can do now is hope we stay up but if they were really all crap we shouldn't all be angry about being where we are. But we are all angry, and fairly so, and that's because these s*******s are playing below even their bang-average levels.

 

[BlueToff]

You're either taking my point out of context or just misunderstanding it. I haven't said people shouldn't be angry at the Wolves result? I was angry at the Wolves result myself so it would be a bit of a weird take for me to go down that route. I'm talking about the people who insist - in all seriousness - that x, y and z are League One players and then also accuse them of 'downing tools'. Now i'm not being funny but if you've got a team full of league one players and they've downed tools, they ain't only losing 1-0 in the Premier League. Either they aren't that bad, or they are that bad and they're trying, both makes no sense. If you're not one of those people then my comment isn't aimed at you.

I've said a number of times, i'm not saying we have a team full of players giving 110% and ready to die for the shirt, of course we don't. I just don't necessarily believe that they're 'not trying' in the sense that lots of people do. The Newcastle game was proof enough for me, they worked hard, got a result after adversity, and looked genuinely elated at the goal and the final whistle, and loads of people come out and say 'play like that every week and they'll be fine' but the truth is they could so easily have lost and the same people would have come on saying they didn't try hard enough, despite the performance being exactly the same. There were people round me saying it during the game who then at full time were saying what a brilliant effort you can see Lampard's got them doing this, they responded to the crowd tonight etc etc. It's just become a default setting now to blame everything on attitude regardless of what happens.

For me, we have a squad massively lacking in quality, especially in key positions. We have almost nobody in the entire squad who can pass and who you would trust on the ball in tight situations. Our centre halves are genuinely terrible, and our only real goal threat seems to be massively unfit. I think the team is in a bit of a death spiral, they have absolutely no confidence at all and there is a severe lack of leadership. I think most of them do try, but not necessarily with the conviction of players who believe that what they're doing will have a positive outcome.

totally agree with this

I still stand by we have a few good players, but the general lack of quality is just as big of an issue as the attitude.

However, the attitude is an issue in that as soon as we go a goal down that's game over.

In this sense, while it is on the players, I also question Lampard's recent approach because he's failed to react too - as he did on Sunday.

 

[Dixieslaces]

You're either taking my point out of context or just misunderstanding it. I haven't said people shouldn't be angry at the Wolves result? I was angry at the Wolves result myself so it would be a bit of a weird take for me to go down that route. I'm talking about the people who insist - in all seriousness - that x, y and z are League One players and then also accuse them of 'downing tools'. Now i'm not being funny but if you've got a team full of league one players and they've downed tools, they ain't only losing 1-0 in the Premier League. Either they aren't that bad, or they are that bad and they're trying, both makes no sense. If you're not one of those people then my comment isn't aimed at you.

I've said a number of times, i'm not saying we have a team full of players giving 110% and ready to die for the shirt, of course we don't. I just don't necessarily believe that they're 'not trying' in the sense that lots of people do. The Newcastle game was proof enough for me, they worked hard, got a result after adversity, and looked genuinely elated at the goal and the final whistle, and loads of people come out and say 'play like that every week and they'll be fine' but the truth is they could so easily have lost and the same people would have come on saying they didn't try hard enough, despite the performance being exactly the same. There were people round me saying it during the game who then at full time were saying what a brilliant effort you can see Lampard's got them doing this, they responded to the crowd tonight etc etc. It's just become a default setting now to blame everything on attitude regardless of what happens.

For me, we have a squad massively lacking in quality, especially in key positions. We have almost nobody in the entire squad who can pass and who you would trust on the ball in tight situations. Our centre halves are genuinely terrible, and our only real goal threat seems to be massively unfit. I think the team is in a bit of a death spiral, they have absolutely no confidence at all and there is a severe lack of leadership. I think most of them do try, but not necessarily with the conviction of players who believe that what they're doing will have a positive outcome.

Brilliant summary