2022/23 Frank Lampard

[Egil Olsen]

I get what you are saying but I think the role of the manager is massively under valued.

United was a prime example. Best run club in England when Fergie was there and then Neville was giving it all about how follow on managers would just be captains passing through on a successful ship. Well 26 years of work dissolved within about 6 months under Moyes and they’ve never had it back.

Barcelona won CLs when they had good managers in Rijkaard Pep and Enrique managing good players. All played completely different styles of football, and the managers in between who weren’t as good didn’t have the same success with similar players. Barca’s philosophy or strategy didn’t really do them much good in the period between their dream team in the early 90s and then buying Ronaldinho as Messi Xavi Iniesta came along.

Chelsea don’t have a strategy. They just hire world class managers and give them whatever they want, they’ve probably won more than most recently. Sarri was completely different to Conte who was different to Tuchel. They all won stuff though playing different formations.

The best clubs allow a manager to implement their strategy on the club and carry it out. Then you hope the next one that follows can also make their strategy a successful one. When Klopp leaves Liverpool the new manager is not going to come in play exactly the same way as he did and just carry on like nothing has happened. Same with Pep. Everything changes with the manager.

That’s why we need to give one some time to see if their strategy can come to fruition.

See Drico's reply.

It really just reinforces my point.

Really just small nuances, and different interpretations of the Cruyff model. You find the same in Ajax, etc., but the main philosophy remains.

Well, it is precisely a strategy, and works very well if you have the money for it. However, very few clubs have it, and cannot base themselves on such a strategy.

They usually hire a manager who has a strategy that coincides with the club's, and of course they allow managers to have interpretations of the model. Ajax would e.g. never hired a manager like Big Sam and let him implement his strategy.

Maybe not, but it is not the new manager who is going to decide the strategy. His role will be to implement it. That doesn't mean he won't be given a degree of freedom, of course, but they are unlikely to employ Sean Dyche.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I genuinely do think he might be on to something with this squad and what he wants them to do

It's disappointing that we haven't won in the league yet this season, but in general we look better than we did last season

I hope that once we win a game or two then things will start clicking and we'll start gradually picking up points for a 12th-14th finish

Now before everyone jumps down my neck, OBVIOUSLY I want Everton to be doing better than that. HOWEVER, I think we have to be realistic here and give the manger some time. Yeah, no one is going to be happy if we finish 14th, but this is a marathon not a sprint and it's going to be a slow agonising crawl back up the table season on season, if we're to do it at all

There's no magic signing or appointment that's going to immediately fire us up to challenging for European places. We're going to have to wade through the weeds for 2, 3 or maybe even 4 seasons. It's going to be arduous and I fully expect attendances and interest to wane for a bit, especially if Liverpool are still enjoying so much success

However, if we do this right and things fall into place then we may emerge from our cocoon of penance with a club that we can actually take pride in again, and that's going to be worth the seasons of toil

I think Frank Lampard could be the man to drag us to that point, but we need to let him breathe and get the job done. If we look like we're going down then I'm sure they'll sack him. If we're doing any better than that though then they should stick with him, and so should we as a fan base

 

[Egil Olsen]

It's interpretation's that can be misleading. The stats are what they are. In this case, they shown that a tiny proportion of managers statistically overachieved vis-a-vis their budgets (effectively what they paid players).

What they show was Moyes was great at earning Everton more points than we had a right to earn given what we paid our players. In there is also a reality that we were not in a position to buy top players. So, with lesser-paid players he earned more points than he would statistically be expected to. What he wasn't able to do was statistically overachieve when he had highly-paid players. So, you could say that he actually DID have a ceiling. He was more effective with cheaper players than he was with more expensive ones. Which is why his move to United was never likely to be the right fit, as many of us knew at the time. Dario Gradi was on the list too.

I haven't seen the latest edition of the Soccernomics table, but Guardiola may not be in even an updated version because he has routinely had the most expensive players in the world and done, more or less, what might be expected of him with those riches. His is an interesting case. He hasn't won the Champions League, which in many ways is the real barometer for the truly elite coaches to be judged against. I mean, given his near 15 seasons in that competition - against his true peers - he hasn't won the cup since 2011 - and never without, arguably, the best club player and team of all time. But, like F1 drivers, the biggest achievement of elite coaches is to command the top jobs - and Guardiola has managed to do that expertly.

Ancelotti is also a manager who has underperformed when using these variables, and who is not a manager who gets a lot out of little - unlike Moyes. That is why I was very skeptical about the strategy when we hired Ancelotti. That doesn't mean Ancelotti is a bad manager, but he was a bad match with Everton.

Maybe, but in CL, chance plays a much bigger role. The manager's role has a much greater influence in the league. Here Guardiola is outstanding. At the same time, he constantly revives old ideas, and in that way contributes to constant development. That makes his teams interesting.

 

[Drico]

Maybe, but in CL, chance plays a much bigger role.

It does - but if people insist on hailing him a "genius", he needs to be overcoming"chance" - especially as his club is still among the richest two in the competition.

Guardiola is obviously a very good manager - exceptionally good. A genius he is not.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

I genuinely do think he might be on to something with this squad and what he wants them to do

It's disappointing that we haven't won in the league yet this season, but in general we look better than we did last season

I hope that once we win a game or two then things will start clicking and we'll start gradually picking up points for a 12th-14th finish

Now before everyone jumps down my neck, OBVIOUSLY I want Everton to be doing better than that. HOWEVER, I think we have to be realistic here and give the manger some time. Yeah, no one is going to be happy if we finish 14th, but this is a marathon not a sprint and it's going to be a slow agonising crawl back up the table season on season, if we're to do it at all

There's no magic signing or appointment that's going to immediately fire us up to challenging for European places. We're going to have to wade through the weeds for 2, 3 or maybe even 4 seasons. It's going to be arduous and I fully expect attendances and interest to wane for a bit, especially if Liverpool are still enjoying so much success

However, if we do this right and things fall into place then we may emerge from our cocoon of penance with a club that we can actually take pride in again, and that's going to be worth the seasons of toil

I think Frank Lampard could be the man to drag us to that point, but we need to let him breathe and get the job done. If we look like we're going down then I'm sure they'll sack him. If we're doing any better than that though then they should stick with him, and so should we as a fan base

Anywhere from 15th & above is perfectly acceptable for me personally. This is a pretty big rebuild job he has here.

 

[Egil Olsen]

It does - but if people insist on hailing him a "genius", he needs to be overcoming"chance" - especially as his club is still among the richest two in the competition.

Guardiola is obviously a very good manager - exceptionally good. A genius he is not.

He is not a genius, but he is not afraid to try old ideas/ideas in new contexts. He has not invented anything himself, but he mixes it together into a well-functioning machine. A machine that is very expensive indeed.

I think he said it well himself: "Even if I had coached a team with less money, we would have played football the way I want it to be played, but we wouldn't have won as many trophies". And that is precisely what Guardiola's legacy is; the football.

Back to Lampard. have read what you have written, and we probably have similar thoughts. Since you put it so well, I don't need to write anything.

 

[MikeH72]

I genuinely do think he might be on to something with this squad and what he wants them to do

It's disappointing that we haven't won in the league yet this season, but in general we look better than we did last season

I hope that once we win a game or two then things will start clicking and we'll start gradually picking up points for a 12th-14th finish

Now before everyone jumps down my neck, OBVIOUSLY I want Everton to be doing better than that. HOWEVER, I think we have to be realistic here and give the manger some time. Yeah, no one is going to be happy if we finish 14th, but this is a marathon not a sprint and it's going to be a slow agonising crawl back up the table season on season, if we're to do it at all

There's no magic signing or appointment that's going to immediately fire us up to challenging for European places. We're going to have to wade through the weeds for 2, 3 or maybe even 4 seasons. It's going to be arduous and I fully expect attendances and interest to wane for a bit, especially if Liverpool are still enjoying so much success

However, if we do this right and things fall into place then we may emerge from our cocoon of penance with a club that we can actually take pride in again, and that's going to be worth the seasons of toil

I think Frank Lampard could be the man to drag us to that point, but we need to let him breathe and get the job done. If we look like we're going down then I'm sure they'll sack him. If we're doing any better than that though then they should stick with him, and so should we as a fan base

12th-14th would be an absolutely miraculous season, Lampard should be given a lifetime contract if he achieves that this season. I think every single Evertonian would rip your arm off for that if you offered it then right now.

 

[Goat]

12th-14th would be an absolutely miraculous season, Lampard should be given a lifetime contract if he achieves that this season. I think every single Evertonian would rip your arm off for that if you offered it then right now.

Not me.

 

[stevie blott]

12th-14th would be an absolutely miraculous season, Lampard should be given a lifetime contract if he achieves that this season. I think every single Evertonian would rip your arm off for that if you offered it then right now.

Hmm, not me. We are still Everton.
We don't deserve top 6 but we should always 'strive' to be there or thereabouts. 16th-12th is soooooooooooooo last year.

 

[MikeH72]

Hmm, not me. We are still Everton.
We don't deserve top 6 but we should always 'strive' to be there or thereabouts. 16th-12th is soooooooooooooo last year.

Yes and I also strive to win the lottery and retire at 30. But you also have to plan for reality as well as your dreams.

 

[Goat]

Yes and I also strive to win the lottery and retire at 30. But you also have to plan for reality as well as your dreams.

I bet you dont even do the lottery do you Mike?

 

[MikeH72]

I bet you dont even do the lottery do you Mike?

Only as part of a syndicate tbf.

 

[stevie blott]

Yes and I also strive to win the lottery and retire at 30. But you also have to plan for reality as well as your dreams.

its a fair point like lol

 

[TheBigIguana]

He saved us against all odds. Seeing as you hate all things Everton, you’ll never acknowledge it

This is factually not true. He did not take over with us odds on to go down. We did reach that point but after he had been in charge for a good while.

I don't know guys I see a lot more progress with other clubs under new management. We were in the game with Leeds but I can't honestly say we were better as one obvious example.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

This is factually not true. He did not take over with us odds on to go down. We did reach that point but after he had been in charge for a good while.

I don't know guys I see a lot more progress with other clubs under new management. We were in the game with Leeds but I can't honestly say we were better as one obvious example.

Short termism like yours is what gets us into this mess