from my cold dead hand

[SuitsBlue]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7032971.stm

charlton heston "from my cold, dead hands"

it can be arranged chuck.

 

[monty]

Guns are freely available everywhere if you wish to acquire one outside the law.................how do you stop such things apart from shoot the swine dead and replay it over and over on the box which in turn will make some very upset because of the violence aspect. This really is the most vicious circle of the lot

 

[TX Bill]

You can't.

Too bad the gun control advocates don't see the rationale behind that.

You know the old saying but it bears repeating:

"If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns."

 

[loosecranks]

You can't.

Too bad the gun control advocates don't see the rationale behind that.

You know the old saying but it bears repeating:

"If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns."

The sad thing is, you probably really do believe that nonsense. There is empirical evidence - and lots of it - that shows a direct correlation between the number of legally owned guns and the number of homicides, TX, it's as simple as that.

Until Americans stop denying the obvious, you're going to continue to suffer these tragedies. You're putting your "right to bear" ahead of others "right to breath."

 

[TX Bill]

The sad thing is, you probably really do believe that nonsense. There is empirical evidence - and lots of it - that shows a direct correlation between the number of legally owned guns and the number of homicides, TX, it's as simple as that.

Until Americans stop denying the obvious, you're going to continue to suffer these tragedies. You're putting your "right to bear" ahead of others "right to breath."

What's worse is that you completely missed the point of "outlawing guns."

You really think those who mean to do harm to others or are involved in criminal activity won't be able to get their hands on them because there are laws created to outlaw ownership?

Seriously?

I don't think it's "as simple as that."

Only a liberal would answer as you did. What utopia you living in?

 

[loosecranks]

Bill, I didn't miss any point, I've heard all of these arguments so many times before I could trot them out for you, verbatim. They're tired at the best of times, but nauseatingly so when there's another six innocents laid out on a slab. I'm really not interested in hearing any more of your "guns don't kill people, people kill people" rhetoric.

However, if you insist that the ease of access to guns that you 'enjoy' in the US isn't a contributing factor to the obscene amount of gun deaths you incur every year, I'll - for arguments sake - give that point of view a modicum of credibility, just this once (a modicum more than it deserves, mind).

So, if that's the case, then what else is it within American society that means that murder - and this peculiarly American type of mass murder ("He just seemed so 'normal'") - are so common place?

Oh, and was calling me a 'liberal' supposed to be an insult? You're a proper Texan, aren't you Bill?

 

[Ct jr.]

What's worse is that you completely missed the point of "outlawing guns."

You really think those who mean to do harm to others or are involved in criminal activity won't be able to get their hands on them because there are laws created to outlaw ownership?

Seriously?

I don't think it's "as simple as that."

Only a liberal would answer as you did. What utopia you living in?

The point is it so unbelievably easy to get a gun that anyone who might want one can get one no problem. Up here in Canada it is next to impossible to get guns here , the main reason we have gun crimes is because they are being smuggled over the border. Thing is though, when the police find someone with a gun, chances are they are guilty of something and are arrested. That could never happen in the US because everyone has a gun. Also that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is [Poor language removed]. That may be true but people with guns kill a lot more and a lot faster. Gun Control would not stop gun violence but would certainly hamper it.

 

[monty]

The point is it so unbelievably easy to get a gun that anyone who might want one can get one no problem. Up here in Canada it is next to impossible to get guns here , the main reason we have gun crimes is because they are being smuggled over the border. Thing is though, when the police find someone with a gun, chances are they are guilty of something and are arrested. That could never happen in the US because everyone has a gun. Also that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is [Poor language removed]. That may be true but people with guns kill a lot more and a lot faster. Gun Control would not stop gun violence but would certainly hamper it.

hence if you really wanted one you'd get it

 

[Ct jr.]

hence if you really wanted one you'd get it

but it wouldn't be as easy and the police would be able to arrest anyone with a gun and confiscate it. Shipments of guns just like that of drugs could be intercepted, again this won't completely solve the problem but it will certainly make a difference.

 

[monty]

but it wouldn't be as easy and the police would be able to arrest anyone with a gun and confiscate it. Shipments of guns just like that of drugs could be intercepted, again this won't completely solve the problem but it will certainly make a difference.

It only prevents the little man from obtaining weapons, as with drugs, the vast majority get through and become freely available although we all know what damage they, and guns, can do.

 

[Ct jr.]

It only prevents the little man from obtaining weapons, as with drugs, the vast majority get through and become freely available although we all know what damage they, and guns, can do.

thing is it much easier to smuggle drugs than guns. And they are already freely availible at gun swaps and such so it would help and in time as police get used to it more and more the number of guns on he streets would decrease and decrease.

 

[loosecranks]

It only prevents the little man from obtaining weapons, as with drugs, the vast majority get through and become freely available although we all know what damage they, and guns, can do.

So what? There would still be plenty of people alive now who aren't, because some nutter has got a cupboard full of firearms to help himself to, on a whim. (The vast majority? - do you have any figures to prove this, because I can show you the figures that prove the correlation between legally held guns and homicides).


Monty - when British kids getted dumped, or otherwise made to feel alienated, they can't reach for daddy's .357, which they know they can find in his bedside table, and go out and murder a group of total strangers, so you know what they do instead? They close the curtains and put on a Cure cd. They become goths.

 

[TX Bill]

Bill, I didn't miss any point, I've heard all of these arguments so many times before I could trot them out for you, verbatim. They're tired at the best of times, but nauseatingly so when there's another six innocents laid out on a slab. I'm really not interested in hearing any more of your "guns don't kill people, people kill people" rhetoric.

However, if you insist that the ease of access to guns that you 'enjoy' in the US isn't a contributing factor to the obscene amount of gun deaths you incur every year, I'll - for arguments sake - give that point of view a modicum of credibility, just this once (a modicum more than it deserves, mind).

So, if that's the case, then what else is it within American society that means that murder - and this peculiarly American type of mass murder ("He just seemed so 'normal'") - are so common place?

Oh, and was calling me a 'liberal' supposed to be an insult? You're a proper Texan, aren't you Bill?

The fact that you've heard these arguments so many times before doesn't make them any less valid than the first time you had heard them.

300 Million in this country and we get a person that snaps and kills 6 people or someone snaps on a college campus and kills 32. Or two high schoolers snap and kill 10+ in a Colorado high school.

Sounds like an epidemic to me. No. The simple fact is that the media (wow, there I go again on our media, who would have suspected that?) make such a grand production out of these things that you'd think that this sort of thing was happening every day in on Main Street USA. No, 99% of the deaths that result from gun violence in this country are from the criminal element of society. Most of the others are accidental shootings.

But the liberals never let a random act of violence such as this case pass without trotting out the old "we wouldn't have these issues if guns weren't around."

Do I deny that a gun makes it easier for someone who is insane and commited to doing harm to others to do that very harm. No, not at all. But to say that guns are the problem and not the people who use them is disingenous at best. You may call it rhetoric, yet liberals can never come up with a reasoned thought in response to this issue.

 

[loosecranks]

You're talking through your ten gallon hat, Bill.

Here's a table that provides the reasoned argument you seek (they're out there, lots of them, you clearly just don't want to hear): it shows quite clearly the causal relationship between legal gun ownership and gun-related homicide.

[/URL][/IMG]



You see, it couldn't be clearer. Why not just admit it, Bill; you like guns, and your think the damage they do to your society is a price worth paying for you to keep them.

 

[TX Bill]

You're talking through your ten gallon hat, Bill.

Here's a table that provides the reasoned argument you seek (they're out there, lots of them, you clearly just don't want to hear): it shows quite clearly the causal relationship between legal gun ownership and gun-related homicide.

[/URL][/IMG]



You see, it couldn't be clearer. Why not just admit it, Bill; you like guns, and your think the damage they do to your society is a price worth paying for you to keep them.

Can't see your table but it's more than likely the same table that the gun control side brings out when these things happen.

Nonetheless, I'll humor you. Give me a link to it so I can go check it out.

However, you still haven't addressed many of the points I've made. I love it when liberal whips out a statisical table from who knows where yet avoids the very heart of the matter.

I don't necessarily like guns. I like that my country allows me the right to own a gun for home defense or for hunting. Doesn't mean I have to own one. It just means that I have the right to.