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from my cold dead hand

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TX Bill said:
The fact that you've heard these arguments so many times before doesn't make them any less valid than the first time you had heard them.

300 Million in this country and we get a person that snaps and kills 6 people or someone snaps on a college campus and kills 32. Or two high schoolers snap and kill 10+ in a Colorado high school.

Sounds like an epidemic to me. No. The simple fact is that the media (wow, there I go again on our media, who would have suspected that?) make such a grand production out of these things that you'd think that this sort of thing was happening every day in on Main Street USA. No, 99% of the deaths that result from gun violence in this country are from the criminal element of society. Most of the others are accidental shootings.

But the liberals never let a random act of violence such as this case pass without trotting out the old "we wouldn't have these issues if guns weren't around."

Do I deny that a gun makes it easier for someone who is insane and commited to doing harm to others to do that very harm. No, not at all. But to say that guns are the problem and not the people who use them is disingenous at best. You may call it rhetoric, yet liberals can never come up with a reasoned thought in response to this issue.
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Or is it that you refuse there logic and disagree with their thought. The cold hard truth is that gun crime is made easier by the easy access to guns. That is it. There is noone not even the most conservative of conservatives can deny that.
 
CT jr. said:
Or is it that you refuse there logic and disagree with their thought. The cold hard truth is that gun crime is made easier by the easy access to guns. That is it. There is noone not even the most conservative of conservatives can deny that.
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Liberal and thought CT? Liberals in our country (I won't speak for yours) don't used logic and thought. They use high volume and emotionalism to get their point across.

And hey, don't take my word for it. I'd be happy to direct you to the mainstream websites in this country that are considered left of center in this country. I'm sure you've heard of a few and believe me, the content you'll find there doesn't pass for reason, logic, or have any coherent thought process attached to it. Pure screed. These are the mainstream now, not some far off, loony left sites I'm talking about.

Liberal thought is an oxymoron if I ever saw one. Please don't tell me that you want to get into how liberal ideas throughout the years, applied in other countries have failed time and time again.

Marxism, Socialism, Communism, I'm sure these ring a bell with you.

As for your point if you want to call it that, is that if we do away with all of the guns, there will be less gun crime? Am I understanding you correctly?

I hope that's not what you're getting at because that what your saying is that of all the gun owners (both legal and illegal) in America, if we reduce that amount, then crime involved with guns will drop. Sure, you'll reduce the amount of guns in the country but the amount of law abiding vs. non-law abiding citizens will be the same. We'll have fewer guns but those who are intent on breaking the law will continue to acquire and use guns for those purposes.

Sure, we'll have fewer guns, but the percentage of guns used in crime wouldn't really be reduced at all and in the end, those law abiding citizens who used to own a gun but don't anymore would be the ones who suffer.

But yes, let's outlaw all guns because it'll make the USA a safer place.

Please, I'm having a laugh.
 
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TX Bill said:
Can't see your table but it's more than likely the same table that the gun control side brings out when these things happen.
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Then let me describe it to you: It's a graph, one column showing the number of legally held guns in each of seven countries, another column showing the pile of dead bodies that result. The USA has the highest number of guns, and subsequently the biggest pile of dead bodies.

More guns = more dead people. It's not hard.

TX Bill said:
However, you still haven't addressed many of the points I've made. I love it when liberal whips out a statisical table from who knows where yet avoids the very heart of the matter.
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Call me a liberal, Bill, but i'd have thought the number of dead people really would be the heart of the matter. As for the argument about illegally held guns, I must admit, this confuses me. I mean, are there ACME Illegal Gun factories in the US, churning out Illegal Guns especially for the criminal fraternity? I don't think so; thus less legally held guns would lead to less illegally held guns and, therefore, one would think, less dead people.
 
Oh, come on, Bill, the NCPA? Hardly objective analysis, dude. :lol: :lol:

Besides, as I've asked once before, why does the US have such a high gun-related homicide rate, if it's not down to the ease of getting hold of a gun?
 

loosecranks said:
Oh, come on, Bill, the NCPA? Hardly objective analysis, dude. :lol: :lol:

Besides, as I've asked once before, why does the US have such a high gun-related homicide rate, if it's not down to the ease of getting hold of a gun?
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Hahahahaa...

Saw this one coming a mile away. With liberals, you address a point, the response is invariably, "well that wasn't the point, this is the point." So I'm guessing that by your response, everything in the table you've put out is correct and every issue that the NCPA addresses is hogwash?

Is that what you're saying? I'm guessing you didn't read any of it then right?

Face it. Getting rid of guns won't get rid of the gun crime. It's really that easy. I've never understood why the left can't get that through their heads.

Why don't you take a minute, humor yourself and read the points that have been made in the "Myths of Gun Control" link. Unless you don't want to have to come to some uncomfortable conclusions, which I can understand. Most on the left never do.
 
loosecranks said:
Then let me describe it to you: It's a graph, one column showing the number of legally held guns in each of seven countries, another column showing the pile of dead bodies that result. The USA has the highest number of guns, and subsequently the biggest pile of dead bodies.

More guns = more dead people. It's not hard.



Call me a liberal, Bill, but i'd have thought the number of dead people really would be the heart of the matter. As for the argument about illegally held guns, I must admit, this confuses me. I mean, are there ACME Illegal Gun factories in the US, churning out Illegal Guns especially for the criminal fraternity? I don't think so; thus less legally held guns would lead to less illegally held guns and, therefore, one would think, less dead people.
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And that's what really baffles me.

Logic (if we want to call it that) dictates that with MORE gun control, we will have MORE dead bodies resulting from violent gun crimes because FEWER people are able to defend themselves.

I would think that the left in this country would really want to see guns in the hands of as many law abiding citizens as possible so that we have fewer dead bodies resulting from gun crimes.
 
Im not really into this thread but I have a theory.

As theres that many guns in America now, its dog eat dog. If you banned the guns they would still exist and then you wouldnt be able to defend your casa.

There has to be another way, see below for the solution:

nudges loosecranks*
 
Logic (if we want to call it that) dictates that with MORE gun control, we will have MORE dead bodies resulting from violent gun crimes because FEWER people are able to defend themselves.
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That's right, that's what happens in Europe. (As long as we can vaguely agree that deaths per head from firearms-related homicide, suicide and accidental death are substantially higher in the USA, whoever's figures we want to use.)

Or are you arguing that there is some other reason that gun-related crime is inherently greater in the USA than the availability of guns?
 

TX Bill said:
I don't necessarily like guns. I like that my country allows me the right to own a gun for home defense or for hunting. Doesn't mean I have to own one. It just means that I have the right to.
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sorry to nit pick TX, would you then confine firearms to the insides of houses and 'game' (deer, pheasant, rabbit) shooting areas only, and then implement penalties for individuals found with a gun in their car, on the street, in a school, in a park, in a restaurant.

whats the deal with assault rifles? what enemy in your home could excuse the use of an M16 assaut rifle? as for deer (venison) killed with an M16 assault rifle i couldnt tell you how it tasted.
 
TX Bill said:
And that's what really baffles me.

Logic (if we want to call it that) dictates that with MORE gun control, we will have MORE dead bodies resulting from violent gun crimes because FEWER people are able to defend themselves.

I would think that the left in this country would really want to see guns in the hands of as many law abiding citizens as possible so that we have fewer dead bodies resulting from gun crimes.
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whats the death toll on americas roads? and how many of the killers behind the wheel were drunk or on drugs?

it only takes a second to make a bad decision, once the trigger is pulled there is no way back, no reincarnation.

the self defence line is one i personally baulk at, its preying on peoples fears, is there a statistic on how many pensioners/elderly own/buyhave guns and what that area of society contribute toward the gun statistics.

i mean, if vera and ed dont have the eye sight to be able to drive, do they still get to wield firearms with intent?
 

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