Gana and his technicolour football shirt (that he doesn't like)

[Yarrgh]

Despite plenty of evidence of copious amounts of bumming going on in religious texts

I used to love going to Sunday School and listen to the old fashioned bummings that would go on in biblical times.

Everyone getting bummed. Loved a bit of bumming them biblical lads.

Do they still have Sunday School?

 

[Oddball]

This is entirely the point though, mate: nobody has forced/is forcing him to do anything.

The proposed relationship is employer/employee. If the club held the values it said it did, he wouldn’t/shouldn’t be employed by them it really is that simple. It doesn’t mean he or his religion is wrong, it’s just a clash - as you quite rightly point out - between two sets of ideals that are not illegal but cannot coexist together.

As it is, it’s all moot because our club is a soulless pit, devoid of the community spirit it spends most of the time ramming down people’s throats. Funny old game.

it isn`t simple though mate. look at it this way- i want you to prove to me you`re not a homophobe and don`t just give me that rainbow flag or clapping as the gay pride float goes past at your sons nursery school sports day, thats not good enough. i want you to tattoo a multicoloured rainbow drag queen on your neck and you say `but mate you know i dont mind LGBT people`
and i go `well i know but its a gesture of support and the folks out there need proof that you arent against LGBT and if you dont get the tattoo theyll think youre homophobic` - do you see my point? i think its unreasonable to ask you to prove anything to me or anyone.
Gueye hasn`t got to prove anything either and why are you so sure he is anti-gay etc

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

it isn`t simple though mate. look at it this way- i want you to prove to me you`re not a homophobe and don`t just give me that rainbow flag or clapping as the gay pride float goes past at your sons nursery school sports day, thats not good enough. i want you to tattoo a multicoloured rainbow drag queen on your neck and you say `but mate you know i dont mind LGBT people`
and i go `well i know but its a gesture of support and the folks out there need proof that you arent against LGBT and if you dont get the tattoo theyll think youre homophobic` - do you see my point? i think its unreasonable to ask you to prove anything to me or anyone.
Gueye hasn`t got to prove anything either and why are you so sure he is anti-gay etc

Not a single person has insisted Gueye do anything. He was asked to participate in supporting LGBTQ+ people and he said no, twice I believe.

You’re quite right, he has nothing to prove and isn’t obliged to change his beliefs. What SHOULD be the case is that clubs who profess to be inclusive and to abhor bigotry in all its forms should not employ players who hold views contrary to those values.

Everton, of “in an ideal world we won’t accept gambling sponsorships again” fame, have clearly decided that a lazy signing to bolster our midfield is worth more than a section of their fanbase feeling like their club holds them in the same esteem as the rest.

For the trillionth time (not a dig at you, there’s just abar 70 threads this convo is happening in): Gueye owes nobody anything. He’s entitled to his beliefs and he absolutely should do/not do what he thinks is right. It’s the club’s responsibility to distance themselves from him and we have chosen not to, so ??‍

 

[Oddball]

Not a single person has insisted Gueye do anything. He was asked to participate in supporting LGBTQ+ people and he said no, twice I believe.

You’re quite right, he has nothing to prove and isn’t obliged to change his beliefs. What SHOULD be the case is that clubs who profess to be inclusive and to abhor bigotry in all its forms should not employ players who hold views contrary to those values.

Everton, of “in an ideal world we won’t accept gambling sponsorships again” fame, have clearly decided that a lazy signing to bolster our midfield is worth more than a section of their fanbase feeling like their club holds them in the same esteem as the rest.

For the trillionth time (not a dig at you, there’s just abar 70 threads this convo is happening in): Gueye owes nobody anything. He’s entitled to his beliefs and he absolutely should do/not do what he thinks is right. It’s the club’s responsibility to distance themselves from him and we have chosen not to, so ??‍

again. how do you know he is anti- LGBT? he was asked twice, so he had to reply with a `no thanks` twice. you keep throwing in his beliefs that he isn`t obliged to change so, again - how do you know his beliefs? i think you are presupposing the lot, everything. because you don`t know and you can`t know because you haven`t been given any evidence of anti-gay sentiments from Gueye, unless of course you assume his refusal to wear some promotional garb is an admission of bigotry, which is what you`ve been doing.

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

again. how do you know he is anti- LGBT? he was asked twice, so he had to reply with a `no thanks` twice. you keep throwing in his beliefs that he isn`t obliged to change so, again - how do you know his beliefs? i think you are presupposing the lot, everything. because you don`t know and you can`t know because you haven`t been given any evidence of anti-gay sentiments from Gueye, unless of course you assume his refusal to wear some promotional garb is an admission of bigotry, which is what you`ve been doing.

Twice he has been asked to participate in a game where the only nod to support is some rainbow colours on his shirt. Twice he has refused. He has not offered anything by way of mitigation.

You’re absolutely right, I don’t KNOW for certain, but I’m speaking on the balance of probabilities. At the very least, he does not actively support the community or their rights, even if he’s not vehemently against it. That does not mesh with the supposed values of our club.

 

[Oddball]

Twice he has been asked to participate in a game where the only nod to support is some rainbow colours on his shirt. Twice he has refused. He has not offered anything by way of mitigation.

You’re absolutely right, I don’t KNOW for certain, but I’m speaking on the balance of probabilities. At the very least, he does not actively support the community or their rights, even if he’s not vehemently against it. That does not mesh with the supposed values of our club.

...and when we don`t know for certain, we have to give Gueye the benefit of the doubt. it would be absurd to do otherwise.
i`m speaking on the balance of probabilities too and just because he doesn`t actively support LGBT+, that doesn`t mean a thing. again, he hasn`t got to prove anything

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

...and when we don`t know for certain, we have to give Gueye the benefit of the doubt. it would be absurd to do otherwise.
i`m speaking on the balance of probabilities too and just because he doesn`t actively support LGBT+, that doesn`t mean a thing. again, he hasn`t got to prove anything

Ok. We’re going around in circles.

My final word, to reiterate: If our club had the values it says it does, it would swerve players who refused to support this or any other marginalised community. It’s not a legal matter; nothing has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. If the club has reason to believe he doesn’t support the rights of a section of their support, they shouldn’t sign him. The only people they stand to alienate in that event is homophobes.

As I’ve said, this isn’t a political issue. There’s no grey area. As long as consent is freely given by those with the power to do so, nobody’s right to love somebody else should be put to a vote. Therefore, if you’re not definitively for the rights of LGBTQ+ people, you’re against them.

 

[Oddball]

Not a single person has insisted Gueye do anything. He was asked to participate in supporting LGBTQ+ people and he said no, twice I believe.

not a single person? yet you say he was asked twice! thats being quite insistent.

 

[Oddball]

Ok. We’re going around in circles.

My final word, to reiterate: If our club had the values it says it does, it would swerve players who refused to support this or any other marginalised community. It’s not a legal matter; nothing has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. If the club has reason to believe he doesn’t support the rights of a section of their support, they shouldn’t sign him. The only people they stand to alienate in that event is homophobes.

As I’ve said, this isn’t a political issue. There’s no grey area. As long as consent is freely given by those with the power to do so, nobody’s right to love somebody else should be put to a vote. Therefore, if you’re not definitively for the rights of LGBTQ+ people, you’re against them.

thats why we`re going round in circles. you`ve bought the intersectionality schpeel hook line and sinker and you won`t listen to any other view no matter how balanced, reasonable or tolerant it may be.

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

not a single person? yet you say he was asked twice! thats being quite insistent.

Twice in two years. For an annual fixture. Relax, buddy.

 

[Oddball]

Twice in two years. For an annual fixture. Relax, buddy.

in your words- `you`ve had your final word`

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

thats why we`re going round in circles. you`ve bought the intersectionality schpeel hook line and sinker and you won`t listen to any other view no matter how balanced, reasonable or tolerant it may be.

Please, right now, without using religion, offer a balanced view as to why one person shouldn’t be able to choose who they love.

 

[Oddball]

Please, right now, without using religion, offer a balanced view as to why one person shouldn’t be able to choose who they love.

ah! so you haven`t had your final word. first off- to ask me that, you must actually believe that `because i`m not definitely for LGBT rights, i`m against them`
how do you know i`m not pro-gay? because i don`t go to LGBT rallys? you can `love` who you choose, why would i be bothered about anyone elses sexual preference or is it as you say `because you dont vehemently support LGBT you must be against them` - have your final, final word because i think you`ve closed your mind to any other principles.

 

[Brett Angell Delight]

ah! so you haven`t had your final word. first off- to ask me that, you must actually believe that `because i`m not definitely for LGBT rights, i`m against them`
how do you know i`m not pro-gay? because i don`t go to LGBT rallys? you can `love` who you choose, why would i be bothered about anyone elses sexual preference or is it as you say `because you dont vehemently support LGBT you must be against them` - have your final, final word because i think you`ve closed your mind to any other principles.

No answer, then? Cool.

 

[RomanReigns]

What are our clubs values?

Are they posted anywhere?