Going for Gold: Holland vs Spain

[ToxtethBlue]

The Dutch had two tournaments: the group stages when they stumbled through unimpressively, then the KO stage when they began to come out and do something with their possession. The Spanish team are an overhyped band of dullards...not in itself an oddity for a WC finalist (some of the German and Italian teams of the past would give them a run for their money in that respect)...the oddity is that they get the positive press they accumulate. It's fostered by the cultural stereotype that no team from a latin country can fail to have flair. Well, this lot dont have it. For all their possession they dont excite.

And neither do the Dutch, to be fair. I understand you don't like 'Latin' football in general but there's no way the Dutch have been any different, and they haven't had to deal with ten men behind the ball during the vast majority of there games. They've just been very dour and not very fluid. In other words, they've both been boring.

The Spaniards have a certain way of playing, whether you like it or not is down to opinion, as you've said in the past, but it does seem to impress people and it is effective. It's not about flair, it's all based on touch, close control and intricate passing ability in tight situatons. The ability to be able to retain the ball and frustrate the opposition team. Germany couldn't get out of there own half and a team that had looked so good on the ball turned into something resembling Bolton.

 

[davek]

And neither do the Dutch, to be fair. I understand you don't like 'Latin' football in general but there's no way the Dutch have been any different, and they haven't had to deal with ten men behind the ball during the vast majority of there games. They've just been very dour and not very fluid. In other words, they've both been boring.

The Spaniards have a certain way of playing, whether you like it or not is down to opinion, as you've said in the past, but it does seem to impress people and it is effective. It's not about flair, it's all based on touch, close control and intricate passing ability in tight situatons. The ability to be able to retain the ball and frustrate the opposition team. Germany couldn't get out of there own half and a team that had looked so good on the ball turned into something resembling Bolton.

I grant you that teams have played deep against them this tournament and that tends to limit Spain's options. But they are very comfortable playing that way when the context of the game has changed in their favour: I've seen Spain go a goal up and have teams needing to come out and still they've gone for possesion football to kill the game off. Only that first half against Honduras did they look anything like the team that lifted the EC two years ago. I dont know whether that's down to a change in coaches or whether they were chastened in that first game out of the traps against Switzerland when the Spanish looked vulnerable. Maybe that set the alarm bells ringing and the tone of their tournament. Whatever the reason, they've failed to impress in this WC.

 

[chicoazul]

davek doesn't take any prisoners when it comes to media darlings.

Wonderful stuff.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I grant you that teams have played deep against them this tournament and that tends to limit Spain's options. But they are very comfortable playing that way when the context of the game has changed in their favour: I've seen Spain go a goal up and have teams needing to come out and still they've gone for possesion football to kill the game off. Only that first half against Honduras did they look anything like the team that lifted the EC two years ago. I dont know whether that's down to a change in coaches or whether they were chastened in that first game out of the traps against Switzerland when the Spanish looked vulnerable. Maybe that set the alarm bells ringing and the tone of their tournament. Whatever the reason, they've failed to impress in this WC.

They do, and that's what there game is all about really, they don't feel the need to waste energy, they just retain the ball and keep things simple, and to be fair to them, it's been a very effective system. But I agree, it hasn't been entertaining football, and I don't think we've seen all that much entertaining football to be honest, but that's just me. Germany where a breath of fresh air, as have Forlan and co, the likes of Holland, Spain and Brazil have just been so-so.

I do believe that Luis Aragones's team, although very similar, was better balanced than the current side. Small details and all that, but there was more fluidity there. Xavi Hernandez in his natural deeper lying position makes all the difference, Senna's energy and underrated qualities where also vital.

 

[davek]

They do, and that's what there game is all about really, they don't feel the need to waste energy, they just retain the ball and keep things simple, and to be fair to them, it's been a very effective system. But I agree, it hasn't been entertaining football, and I don't think we've seen all that much entertaining football to be honest, but that's just me. Germany where a breath of fresh air, as have Forlan and co, the likes of Holland, Spain and Brazil have just been so-so.

I do believe that Luis Aragones's team, although very similar, was better balanced than the current side. Small details and all that, but there was more fluidity there. Xavi Hernandez in his natural deeper lying position makes all the difference, Senna's energy and underrated qualities where also vital.

I think that's a big point. They have nothing like him in this outfit. Bousquets, I think, is poor and not that type of player anyway. Because of that they look a bit effette. Senna added some brawn in their and it remimnded you that Spain could also mix it up a bit if they had to. It created a different impression of them. The only time I got that impressiion this WC was when Llorentes came on and turned the game for them against Portugal. They looked good by adding that more robust dimension to their game.

I think they'll regret not bringing that Senna type of player to this WC tonight. I'd imagine the Spanish getting right into Webb's face from the moment Van Bommel puts a tackle in in an effort to blunt the Dutch in midfield so they wont miss Senna. If they dont succeed I think the Dutch will nick this match.

 

[Rook]

The squad was better with Senna in the side. Not sure why he hasn't got a chance (he's on the bench right?) with Bosquet stinking it up regularly. I think Holland has a chance if Villa lines up as a lone striker in the middle. He's much more deadly on the wing even if it means starting Torres, who by the law of averages has to at least have a ball on target.

Barring something horrible no one is getting sent off tonight before say the 75th min. So VanBrommel will have pretty much free reign to break ankles.

Just think after today: Ryan Babel one world cup winners medal, Cryuff zero.

 

[Goat]

I think that's a big point. They have nothing like him in this outfit. Bousquets, I think, is poor and not that type of player anyway. Because of that they look a bit effette. Senna added some brawn in their and it remimnded you that Spain could also mix it up a bit if they had to. It created a different impression of them. The only time I got that impressiion this WC was when Llorentes came on and turned the game for them against Portugal. They looked good by adding that more robust dimension to their game.

I think they'll regret not bringing that Senna type of player to this WC tonight. I'd imagine the Spanish getting right into Webb's face from the moment Van Bommel puts a tackle in in an effort to blunt the Dutch in midfield so they wont miss Senna. If they dont succeed I think the Dutch will nick this match.

Van Bommel is a marked man tonight, no doubt somebody somewhere high up has had a word about him.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

The squad was better with Senna in the side. Not sure why he hasn't got a chance (he's on the bench right?) with Bosquet stinking it up regularly. I think Holland has a chance if Villa lines up as a lone striker in the middle. He's much more deadly on the wing even if it means starting Torres, who by the law of averages has to at least have a ball on target.

Barring something horrible no one is getting sent off tonight before say the 75th min. So VanBrommel will have pretty much free reign to break ankles.

Just think after today: Ryan Babel one world cup winners medal, Cryuff zero.

I lost the count on how many he did break uptil now? I know you dislike him big way and think he's a dirty [Poor language removed], but surely you have to admit, that besides all the things you don't like, he's a damned good player? Think he won more challenges and tackles than anyone else during this World Cup.

 

[davek]

Van Bommel is a marked man tonight, no doubt somebody somewhere high up has had a word about him.

Spain have already "questioned" Webb's performace in their game against Switzerland:

We want Van Bommel sent off.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Van Bommel is a marked man tonight, no doubt somebody somewhere high up has had a word about him.

Either that or he will be having him in his back pocket. Knowing van Bommel, you shouldn't be surprised if it was the latter one.

 

[Goat]

I lost the count on how many he did break uptil now? I know you dislike him big way and think he's a dirty [Poor language removed], but surely you have to admit, that besides all the things you don't like, he's a damned good player? Think he won more challenges and tackles than anyone else during this World Cup.

Personally I dont mind players like him, every team needs an enforcer, yeah its the ugly side of football, but I would rather people were upfront about these things, rather than being a little rat and diving and faking injury.

If he ever touches my Mikel hes a dead man tho.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Personally I dont mind players like him, every team needs an enforcer, yeah its the ugly side of football, but I would rather people were upfront about these things, rather than being a little rat and diving and faking injury.

If he ever touches my Mikel hes a dead man tho.

Don't ever threaten my Mark again, you hear me?

 

[Goat]

Even little Robinho aint scared of him.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Even little Robinho aint scared of him.

And where is Robinho now, haven't seen him since the Holland vs Brazil game?

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I mentioned on another thread that I thought they look better with Senna. However don't agrree that Busquets has been poor. Actually think he's been their best performer along witrh Villa on an individual level. The team seemed to me better balanced with Senna though. To use an expression common in Spanish football parlance They seemed to have more 'verticality' about them in the EC. As lots have mentioned, the fact that they are now a major scalp may have been a factor with most teams out to frustrate them. The truth is though, they had about 70% possession against Germany but only had about two shots on target.