GOT Fitness LOG

[evilwebby]

It's possible to be in ketosis and not see then show up in your urine test (ketone sticks), your body might be using them as an energy source at the time providing a negative test for ketones.

Yes, that's very true. I was trying to smplify

Calories don't matter to an extent, that's half the story. If you're not reading Kiefer, you'll enjoy his stuff and his podcasts. You can glycogen load and use ketosis in synergy for fat loss too. The glycogen load, when done correctly, provides a positive hormonal change, which further aids fat loss.

Not familiar with Kiefer, I'll check out some of his stuff.

The whole calories do/don't matter on low-carb is a very contentious. Ultimately, the 1st law of thermodynamics must be obeyed, and calories that aren't converted to energy are stored. But your body's metabolic rate is the great variable in this equation, and many people don't consider that changes to the composition of your diet will have a big effect on your metabolism. Fat is a more complicated molecule than carbohydrate and more difficult to break down, so your body has to do more work to fuel itself from fat; hence your metabolism is raised just from switching its fuel source, so all other things being equal you can consume more calories anyway - at least enough that you don't need to worry about being full. Will you lose more weight quicker if you also calorie-restrict AND low carb? It's possible, but again I believe that by restricting your calorie intake below what naturally satiates you lowers your metabolism anyway and is damaging to your system in the long term just as any yo-yo low-calorie starvation diet is.

 

[maddison]

Yes, that's very true. I was trying to smplify




Not familiar with Kiefer, I'll check out some of his stuff.

The whole calories do/don't matter on low-carb is a very contentious. Ultimately, the 1st law of thermodynamics must be obeyed, and calories that aren't converted to energy are stored. But your body's metabolic rate is the great variable in this equation, and many people don't consider that changes to the composition of your diet will have a big effect on your metabolism. Fat is a more complicated molecule than carbohydrate and more difficult to break down, so your body has to do more work to fuel itself from fat; hence your metabolism is raised just from switching its fuel source, so all other things being equal you can consume more calories anyway - at least enough that you don't need to worry about being full. Will you lose more weight quicker if you also calorie-restrict AND low carb? It's possible, but again I believe that by restricting your calorie intake below what naturally satiates you lowers your metabolism anyway and is damaging to your system in the long term just as any yo-yo low-calorie starvation diet is.

Intermittent fasting is fine mate, naturally we would have had states of fasting as part of our normal diet. The body isn't as fragile as you think in that respect, you're content switching the logic that is part of the problem with people binge eating carbs.

As you're already in a ketogenic state when you're eating a low carb diet, fasting doesn't present a problem because you're simply dipping into your fat stores. You're not going to have a super low body fat composition, so it's a bit of a non issue.

 

[maddison]

Madds...explain what a catabolic state is to me please and why its a bad thing.

Hate this question! Basically catabolism is often miss understood, and it's seen as a negative. People mistakenly think it means they're muscles are breaking down and they are losing size (bodybuilding).

In reality negative catabolism is rare; catabolism is very important and works in conjunction with anabolism. Basically it's how your body breaks down molecules into smaller units for energy release. It's catabolism that creates the energy release for the maintenance and growth of cells, this is where anabolism then kicks in. Anabolism then constructs cells, it does so by using smaller units to construct molecules. It's the catabolism that fuels this process by breaking down the larger molecules for energy in the first place.

You need both basically, so catabolism from training for example, is actually a good thing and a desired effect of training hard.

Hope that helps?

 

[Kiwi]

Im not sure why but whenever I run I always get an aching right shoulder. I suspect its the impact on the pavement, but I can't work it out. I've changed my running style and stride length but it always comes back. When I stretch it helps but about 4-5kms in it comes and I just really struggle. Its my deltoid and I really don't know why. Any ideas guys?

 

[Walken]

Taking a year off footy or any damaging exercise to rebuild my knee and strengthen other parts with yoga and non impact cardio and some core work, can't say I've ever seen the point in getting massive, its just a vanity project, but love reading the stuff in this thread, some very knowledgable lads with lots of helpful ideas

 

[DualityNSNO]

Taking a year off footy or any damaging exercise to rebuild my knee and strengthen other parts with yoga and non impact cardio and some core work, can't say I've ever seen the point in getting massive, its just a vanity project, but love reading the stuff in this thread, some very knowledgable lads with lots of helpful ideas

What happened to your knee, if you don't mind me asking? Were you not Walken straight? *gets coat*

 

[Walken]

What happened to your knee, if you don't mind me asking? Were you not Walken straight? *gets coat*

nothing specific mate, more just wear and tear, then last year got nailed in footy right on the knee, not a filthy challenge just a big impact, I flew out for work the next day, not sure if the flight contributed, poor air quality an all that, but the knee swelled up with fluid, got it looked at, after the anti inflammtorys and was diagnosed with arthritis in it.Gives me a fair bit of trouble in the winter and road running is out now, you can actually feel a significant gap on the knee where the knee cap had dropped, so the physio told me to take a year out from football or anything heavy on impact, also recommended bikram yoga, which strengthens knees specifically along with other things, its also in a sauna so great for weight loss and perving at birds. Got given a pro longed warm up and cooling down exercise list but I'll still need a replacement later on in life. I have to say though, its baltic outside this time of year and I don't even feel it anymore on the knee. Made up because I'm not really ready to give up the fun parts of sport and just have to exercise for the sake of health. I'm 29 now so just at that stage where I can't take my body for granted anymore

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Slightly specious there Bruce, Oat protein isn't a complete protein. It lacks all of the amino acids to be a complete protein.

The best protein sources are always going to be meats, fish, poultry, and dairy. Veggie proteins, even when combined to make a complete protein, aren't quite the same.

Having said that, most people eat too much protein when exercising and just crap it out

Aye, fair point. I kind of imagined that most of the protein in porridge would come from the milk rather than the oats, but that's not based on any facts or anything.

I sent you some info on this in a PM mid last year I think. Think of it this way for simplicity purposes, your glycogen reserves are finite. You can increase them by manipulating your body to help it build deeper glycogen reserves, by doing a long depleting run/ ride and then having a carb refeed once or twice a week, but ultimately it pales in comparison to the available energy in 1 pound of fat (3,500 calories).

The use of Ketone salts (you drink them) might possibly yield a major advantage for endurance athletes.

It's possible to be in ketosis and not see then show up in your urine test (ketone sticks), your body might be using them as an energy source at the time providing a negative test for ketones.

Calories don't matter to an extent, that's half the story. If you're not reading Kiefer, you'll enjoy his stuff and his podcasts. You can glycogen load and use ketosis in synergy for fat loss too. The glycogen load, when done correctly, provides a positive hormonal change, which further aids fat loss.

Sorry mate, ropey memory Thanks for the reminder though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Maddison bossing the thread (again)

Good stuff mate.

 

[maddison]

Aye, fair point. I kind of imagined that most of the protein in porridge would come from the milk rather than the oats, but that's not based on any facts or anything.



Sorry mate, ropey memory Thanks for the reminder though.

Porridge oats are a funny one, they have 12 of the 13 essential amino acids. I've no idea what to eat with it to get that extra one mind. Milk is a complete protein obviously, but I know some people eat oats with water instead of milk.

It's a good idea to discard any vegetable or grain protein from your protein count, and just see it as a bonus if you eat enough of the right combinations to get a complete protein from the mix.

I'd definitely look into the Ketone salts, although I've no idea how to mix the stuff and the only two sources I'm aware of in the states that sell the stuff don't export.

You need to look in the direction of [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Dr. Dagostino and Patrick Arnold for more info. Bare in mind they are selling a supplement, but if you know how to mix the raw ingredients you can do what they do at a fraction of the cost. [/FONT]

 

[Big Fat Sam]

This is all a bit too scienfitic for me.

Anyway, today I got on the scales and it displayed: 80.0kg (12.5 stone).

That's cool, as on the 9th of January I was possibly my heaviest ever at 82.9kg (13.1 stone).

I'm pleased to have been able to lose half a stone in just over two weeks!

My target is around 75/76kg, so just under 12 stone. Half way there... but I will give myself until the end of February to achieve it, then decide from there how to continue.

 

[Maxwell]

Hate this question! Basically catabolism is often miss understood, and it's seen as a negative. People mistakenly think it means they're muscles are breaking down and they are losing size (bodybuilding).

In reality negative catabolism is rare; catabolism is very important and works in conjunction with anabolism. Basically it's how your body breaks down molecules into smaller units for energy release. It's catabolism that creates the energy release for the maintenance and growth of cells, this is where anabolism then kicks in. Anabolism then constructs cells, it does so by using smaller units to construct molecules. It's the catabolism that fuels this process by breaking down the larger molecules for energy in the first place.

You need both basically, so catabolism from training for example, is actually a good thing and a desired effect of training hard.

Hope that helps?

So catabolism occured during training breaks down muscle for energy, then anabolism kicks in to re-grow the mucle? ie, its important to get proteins in 20 minutes after training to aid the anabolic stage as fast as possible?

 

[maddison]

So catabolism occured during training breaks down muscle for energy, then anabolism kicks in to re-grow the mucle? ie, its important to get proteins in 20 minutes after training to aid the anabolic stage as fast as possible?

Pretty much that's it in a nutshell. You can ingest carbs post workout to help refill your glycogen stores too, but that doesn't actually help/ aid growth, it's the protein that speeds things up. If you use a whey isolate that you mix your self, as opposed to the ready mixed varieties, you're also getting the added boost of it being an anti oxidant

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I had a discussion about that 20/30 minute window with some fellow cyclists the other week Maddison, you may know the answer better than we did.

From what I can tell, the 20/30 minute window is really useful for quick recovery from exercise, so it would seem sensible that it comes into its own when you're doing another workout relatively soon after the first one.

So here's my question. Given that you eat a decent enough diet and get enough protein for your exercise levels, how soon after the first session do you need to train for that 30 minute window to be relevant?

I mean if your next session isn't for 36/48 hours, do you still need to worry about quick protein or will your regular diet be fine?

 

[maddison]

I had a discussion about that 20/30 minute window with some fellow cyclists the other week Maddison, you may know the answer better than we did.

From what I can tell, the 20/30 minute window is really useful for quick recovery from exercise, so it would seem sensible that it comes into its own when you're doing another workout relatively soon after the first one.

So here's my question. Given that you eat a decent enough diet and get enough protein for your exercise levels, how soon after the first session do you need to train for that 30 minute window to be relevant?

I mean if your next session isn't for 36/48 hours, do you still need to worry about quick protein or will your regular diet be fine?

The short answer is, I don't know how much of an impact it will have on your overall performance. The relevance should always be though, does it improve recovery? And the answer is yes, the question is to what extent?

For me anything that can aid recovery is a worthwhile addition, I'd just question why people are having four or five protein shakes a day. One post workout with some carbs is great, I'd always argue for the rest of the day you're better off eating regular food