Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

  • Participation within this subforum is only available to members who have had 5+ posts approved elsewhere.

Graham Potter new Chelsea head coach confirmed

Status
Not open for further replies.
Martin Alvito said:
Sure, but this is not how the managers that make it at that level generally get there these days. At a club like Chelsea, you're trying to juggle the egos of some of the most expensive players in the game and some of the most highly rated prospects, which you need to hold onto in order to be a long-run success. This is totally unlike Brighton, where he was dealing with unheralded, hungry players highly motivated to succeed in order to get the big payday. Not all Prem player egos are created equal.

The guys that succeed at that next level generally have spent some time at the highest levels, whether as a player or as an assistant. Klopp is a bit of an exception, but even he had a long spell at Dortmund before taking the helm at a behemoth. For the most part, though, the ones that remain in the top echelon of jobs either played in one of the big fishbowls (eg: Guardiola, Conte, Zidane, Ancelotti) or spent some time at one as an assistant learning from a master (eg: Mourinho, to a degree van Gaal).

He has never walked into a job where he had less job security than the players before, and being a bit of a media darling probably works to his disadvantage in that the London media will be happy to sell the narrative of tearing him down. It's a big transition that most managers fail at unless they take an intermediate job along the way.

Can he succeed? Sure. Is it likely? Not on the evidence.
Click to expand...
Plenty of players at clubs like Brighton have big egos. It's not something that only the players at European level have. Having squad members thinking they're the main man or above it all is a common aspect in football right down to pub level. There isn't a form of uber-ego which only manifests once a team finished 4th or above. They're blokes in a competitive industry, it's gonna be rife at all levels - it's something that Tuchel seems to struggle with, maybe his own ego contributing, despite his path to Chelsea being more in keeping with what you describe.

He has walked into jobs where he has had less job security than the players. He came from Ostersund to Swansea with only the football-hipster seal of approval to fall back on. If it had gone badly wrong quickly he'd have been out of the door very early. Same at Brighton - he wasn't brought in to take them down and build to come back up. Chris Hughton's sacking showed they weren't above showing a manager the door if he wasn't getting a tune out of the players. I doubt any manager goes into a club with more job security than the players.

And the media are always going to be happy to tear down or build up according to a narrative- that's what sells stories. That's not something exclusive to Potter or any other manager who has had his career trajectory. What is the intermediate job along the way? The Moyes Preston - Everton - Man Utd transition?

Potter's Leed's Uni - Ostersund (Swedish 4th Tier - Europa) - Swansea (Championship) - Brighton (Lower-Mid PL) is quite a trajectory and the next step at Chelsea isn't remarkably huge in that context. He is coming into a big PL job with plenty of proven PL experience.

If Potter lasts 2 years there then that's as much longevity as the average Top 4 manager. You'd have to define the parameters of success because if it's lasting longer than 2 years then there aren't many who succeed at Chelsea.
 
ClausThomsen said:
Plenty of players at clubs like Brighton have big egos. It's not something that only the players at European level have. Having squad members thinking they're the main man or above it all is a common aspect in football right down to pub level. There isn't a form of uber-ego which only manifests once a team finished 4th or above. They're blokes in a competitive industry, it's gonna be rife at all levels - it's something that Tuchel seems to struggle with, maybe his own ego contributing, despite his path to Chelsea being more in keeping with what you describe.

He has walked into jobs where he has had less job security than the players. He came from Ostersund to Swansea with only the football-hipster seal of approval to fall back on. If it had gone badly wrong quickly he'd have been out of the door very early. Same at Brighton - he wasn't brought in to take them down and build to come back up. Chris Hughton's sacking showed they weren't above showing a manager the door if he wasn't getting a tune out of the players. I doubt any manager goes into a club with more job security than the players.

And the media are always going to be happy to tear down or build up according to a narrative- that's what sells stories. That's not something exclusive to Potter or any other manager who has had his career trajectory. What is the intermediate job along the way? The Moyes Preston - Everton - Man Utd transition?

Potter's Leed's Uni - Ostersund (Swedish 4th Tier - Europa) - Swansea (Championship) - Brighton (Lower-Mid PL) is quite a trajectory and the next step at Chelsea isn't remarkably huge in that context. He is coming into a big PL job with plenty of proven PL experience.

If Potter lasts 2 years there then that's as much longevity as the average Top 4 manager. You'd have to define the parameters of success because if it's lasting longer than 2 years then there aren't many who succeed at Chelsea.
Click to expand...
It's a history of small media clubs with players on low wages that came in on low fees. There was no walking into a mix of legit stars of the game vs. unheralded/young players in any of that background, not much in the way of media attention, and that which was received was fawning. This job is not the same.

What would be an intermediate job these days? One of the perennial Champions League contenders in another country that rarely makes much noise when they get there, but is then in the mix in Europa. I would argue that one of the major reasons that the English manager crop has been poor in recent decades is that they've proven unwilling to learn a second language and develop themselves abroad.

Saying that a history of building smaller clubs prepares someone for the spotlight of one of the largest is a bit like saying that building programs in oblong-ball at Tulsa and Washington State prepares them for taking a job like Alabama or Ohio State. It doesn't. The game is the same, but the players, their expectations, the managerial skill set and media management just aren't.

Every once in a while, somebody succeeds at the leap. The vast majority crash and burn. This is why the top clubs pass the same dozen managers around so frequently. They're the only proven commodities, and it works out more often than not.

I would say that the parameters of success at Chelsea will be the same as they were under Abramovich - win a major trophy before you get chased out the door. League Cup doesn't count. Abramovich wouldn't even tolerate the FA Cup, but I think new ownership would take that right about now.
 
Why people assume the new Chelsea will work just like the old Chelsea, sacking managers left right and center, is baffling. It might turn out like that, but it's far from guaranteed. Also figures the anti-Yank bias is part of it.
 
mmmmsnouts said:
Why people assume the new Chelsea will work just like the old Chelsea, sacking managers left right and center, is baffling. It might turn out like that, but it's far from guaranteed. Also figures the anti-Yank bias is part of it.
Click to expand...
They just sacked their champions league manager. I'd day it's a safe bet the operating model remains similar
 

bluelife said:
They just sacked their champions league manager. I'd day it's a safe bet the operating model remains similar
Click to expand...
If you're going to crack on that lot for their asterisk title, then that goes double for Chelsea winning the 2020 CL. It wasn't even a two-legged competition.
 
Say what you want about Chelsea, they’re a ruthless winning machine. I would take their trophies if it meant a new manager every 18 months.

It’s very rare a manager stays at a club like Ferguson, Wenger and Moyes did in modern English football.
 
Martin Alvito said:
It's a history of small media clubs with players on low wages that came in on low fees. There was no walking into a mix of legit stars of the game vs. unheralded/young players in any of that background, not much in the way of media attention, and that which was received was fawning. This job is not the same.

What would be an intermediate job these days? One of the perennial Champions League contenders in another country that rarely makes much noise when they get there, but is then in the mix in Europa. I would argue that one of the major reasons that the English manager crop has been poor in recent decades is that they've proven unwilling to learn a second language and develop themselves abroad.

Saying that a history of building smaller clubs prepares someone for the spotlight of one of the largest is a bit like saying that building programs in oblong-ball at Tulsa and Washington State prepares them for taking a job like Alabama or Ohio State. It doesn't. The game is the same, but the players, their expectations, the managerial skill set and media management just aren't.

Every once in a while, somebody succeeds at the leap. The vast majority crash and burn. This is why the top clubs pass the same dozen managers around so frequently. They're the only proven commodities, and it works out more often than not.

I would say that the parameters of success at Chelsea will be the same as they were under Abramovich - win a major trophy before you get chased out the door. League Cup doesn't count. Abramovich wouldn't even tolerate the FA Cup, but I think new ownership would take that right about now.
Click to expand...
I think you and @ClausThomsen make great points. I think the scale of money/ego is at a different level than Potter has ever seen, to Clause's point. But there are also examples of plenty of college football(american style) have made the leaps. Just look at that dirtbag Urban Meyer. Bowling Green to Utah to Florida. I mean, that ain't far of Potter's trajectory. Although I think both of you have good, solid points.
 


Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.

Register
Back
Top