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2018/19 Gylfi Sigurdsson

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mkrudden said:
No you lunatic, i'm asking, not telling you:

Would it be fair to say that you aren't happy with his output if you think he should be doing more (which is your principle point, isn't it?)?
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No, it's not!

I've said above, he'd be up there with my players of the season. I'm ostensibly happy with him. but I understand why people criticise him and part of me agrees with the criticism. He's not perfect, and at times I wish he gave us more, just like all the other examples I've put forward. That absolutely doesn't mean that i'm not happy with his output in general.
 
Lanolin said:
I'm not saying you're dense. What's frustrating is it appears that you're not actually trying to take on board what people saying, you're so desperate to refute it that you just blunder in making irrelevant points and false comparisons rather than trying to understand where they're coming from. I think part of the problem is you're over analysing it. You're seemingly desperate to pigeonhole it as some specific tactical analysis, when people are actually just making pretty general comments.

I don't know how I've ended up taking this on because I think he's good, he's up there with my players of the season. It's just that I can see why other people aren't happy, I understand what it is that they're asking for from him, and I agree (to an extent).

It's not about where we are on the field, or which of our players has the ball, or whether we're in transition or whatever other very specific conditions we want to impose. It could apply in any situation really. The point is simply that, on occasion (any given occasion), we could sometimes do with him making himself available to get the ball more often, and to take a little more responsibility for trying to make things happen. There are times when we have teams penned back and the ball is being shunted round between the full backs, Gana, Keane etc, and Sigurdsson does not appear to take it upon himself to get the ball and try to create something, despite him clearly being suited to it than the players we are tasking with that job.

Now you keep saying that's not how he plays, as if people don't understand that. They do understand it, they're saying they don't like it. It is EXACTLY the same as saying that Tosun needs to make more of a nuisance of himself, or that Keane needs to be more of a leader at the back, or that Richarlison needs to stay on his feet more. Just saying 'that's the type of player he is, end of', doesn't really add anything. It's just people giving their opinion on a player, people are welcome to disagree, but time and again the disagreement on this issue is just a point blank refusal to accept the other viewpoint, by saying it's just how he is. That doesn't really happen in any of the other cases, so i'm not sure why Sigurdsson is so special.

And before we have the other argument put forward, I also know that the manager might be happy with how he plays now, but once again, the exact same principle applies to all those other examples.
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Ok, I think I understand better, thanks. Agree, your opinion has nothing to do with style - whether he holds it or not for example.

But to be clear, I'm ABSOLUTELY not interested in refuting what you are saying, I truly am trying to understand it. I absolutely LOATHE the idea of debate for the sake of winning some stupid point I really do appreciate the discussion.

I can understand what we mean by Keane needing to be more vocal, commanding, being more of an organizer. Got that. I can easily understand that Richarlison needs to stay on his feet a bit more. Easy to understand that point. The Sigurdsson opinion does seem a bit harder to define for me, so I'm not surprised it required a bit of dialog.

I personally see him making himself available for the ball all the time. HOWEVER, I'm not there. Wish I was, but that makes a big difference. But I do believe part of this is tactical. Silva does seem to want him to play higher more as a secondary striker. That being said, against Cardiff - I know, Cardiff - Gylfi played as part of Silva's traditional 4-3-3 with Schneiderlin sitting as a 6 with Gana running around in front of him and Gylfi a bit deeper. He had 56 touches, 35 passes, well above his average. Does that mean he made himself more available? Or was that tactical?

I don't know. I think there are arguments on either side.
 

I think the issue is this:
Most of us think of Gylfi as an attacking midfielder, a 10. Thats why many of us judge his games with that in mind. This becomes a little hairy when he’s not alway playing as a 10. He’s a very flexible player, and Marco askes him to play many roles in the team. Some games he’s a pure 10, others he’s a striker, the next he’s constantly man marking. Naturally its a little difficult to know what to expect from him. Like the Chelsea game. He was constantly marking Jorghino, which restricts other aspects of his game and people notice without seeing the marking, then come on here and say he had a horrible game - when he did exactly what the manager asked of him.
 
Groucho said:
Well, Lukaku scored and assisted however he wasn’t any use either apparently.
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Exactly the point I've been making. Lukaku wanted to come to life in and around the box, but people were quite happy to say he should do X, Y and Z aswell. Sigurdsson wants to come to life around the box but we shouldn't ask any more of him because that's just how he is.

heatmeiser said:
I'm talking about changing the definition of the word "lazy" to suit their own argument. Absolutely baffling.
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I think that was me, to be fair. I wasn't trying to change the definition, I was just pointing out that giving the dictionary definition of laziness didn't really address the point being made. We've all accused people of lazy passes or lazy journalism, but I doubt many of us meant that the person we were talking about was 'unwilling to work'. Context is important, and just saying 'he runs around loads he can't be lazy' completely removes the context the point was being made in.
 

Nyhus said:
I think the issue is this:
Most of us think of Gylfi as an attacking midfielder, a 10. Thats why many of us judge his games with that in mind. This becomes a little hairy when he’s not alway playing as a 10. He’s a very flexible player, and Marco askes him to play many roles in the team. Some games he’s a pure 10, others he’s a striker, the next he’s constantly man marking. Naturally its a little difficult to know what to expect from him. Like the Chelsea game. He was constantly marking Jorghino, which restricts other aspects of his game and people notice without seeing the marking, then come on here and say he had a horrible game - when he did exactly what the manager asked of him.
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Well, that's a problem. You should think of him in the role that is laid out for him per the match tactics. Simple as that.
 

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