2018/19 Gylfi Sigurdsson

[CRIMHEAD]

Listen we will just have to agree to disagree your clearly a good blue and I have no hard feelings that you think I’m wrong this is after all a forum.

Ok, but it's one thing to say you disagree with someone, it's quite another thing to say "football isn't for you" and "you will never understand the game of football".

 

[madkiwi]

Can I get a tl;dr for this debate? Too lazy to read the walls of text.

 

[Thomasc]

Can I get a tl;dr for this debate? Too lazy to read the walls of text.

Few lids are still upset with Gylfi, few like him.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

No you still misunderstand the point. I have no idea how, it's quite a talent you have.

You consistently talk about it as if people want him to play like Gomes, getting on the ball all the time and moving it round, but NOBODY is saying that. The point is that at times when we're looking for a goal he often seems to want to just be the one who scores it, or who plays a nice ball at the edge of the box to set it up, rather than saying right I've got the talent to actually make this happen by demanding the ball and doing something with it. It's such a ludicrously simple point that you just don't grasp. I wouldn't mind you disagreeing, but it's incredibly frustrating when you just argue a completely different point to the one people are making to you.

I'm trying to understand, I am, but you haven't been very specific.

So it's when we have possession and when we are in the final third. Got it.

You want him to do more of what we did when we went down against Spurs. Take the ball himself and score rather than move the ball. That's it?

 

[Lanolin]

I'm trying to understand, I am, but you haven't been very specific.

So it's when we have possession and when we are in the final third. Got it.

You want him to do more of what we did when we went down against Spurs. Take the ball himself and score rather than move the ball. That's it?

No.

 

[heatmeiser]

Can I get a tl;dr for this debate? Too lazy to read the walls of text.

Basically people are redefining the word lazy to fit whatever type of player they think Iceland should be, rather than what he actually is.

 

[Lanolin]

Basically people are redefining the word lazy to fit whatever type of player they think Iceland should be, rather than what he actually is.

Love this. Walcott's just not the type of player who scores or assists lads, leave him alone eh?

 

[CRIMHEAD]

No.

Look, I'm trying to understand, and maybe that frustrates you, but I'm not dense at least by any objective measure - opinions vary I guess.

What phase of play are we talking about here? I'm assuming it's when we have the ball based on what you've said. Is it transition or when we've got possession?

 

[EvertonFury19]

Can I get a tl;dr for this debate? Too lazy to read the walls of text.

Siggy is the worst 12 goal scorer ever to play the game / Siggy is the best most complete 12 goal scorer to ever play the game

 

[mkrudden]

Erm… well, yeah. I mean, I thought that's what we were all doing?

What I write on here doesn't change what the owner/manager/players do, it's just me giving an opinion. If I say Bernard needs to score more goals or Holgate needs to be stronger, it's perfectly possible that the manager will disagree with me, I'm fully aware of that. I write about what I think, not what the coaches are telling them to do. I used the example of Lukaku earlier, it would appear that he played to instruction, seeing as I don't recall him ever being dropped in the 4 years we had him, but people were perfectly entitled to say on here that they wanted him to run the channels more/hold the ball up better etc surely?

Of course you're entitled to say whatever you want but it's undeniably strange to judge a player's output based on how you'd like him to play rather than the way he is clearly being asked by the manager. It's understandable and very reasonable to say "i'd rather he played like this" but you don't phrase it like that, you phrase it as the issue is with Sig when, I imagine, your criticism should be of Silva if you think he is misusing?

 

[Lanolin]

Look, I'm trying to understand, and maybe that frustrates you, but I'm not dense at least by any objective measure - opinions vary I guess.

What phase of play are we talking about here? I'm assuming it's when we have the ball based on what you've said. Is it transition or when we've got possession?

I'm not saying you're dense. What's frustrating is it appears that you're not actually trying to take on board what people saying, you're so desperate to refute it that you just blunder in making irrelevant points and false comparisons rather than trying to understand where they're coming from. I think part of the problem is you're over analysing it. You're seemingly desperate to pigeonhole it as some specific tactical analysis, when people are actually just making pretty general comments.

I don't know how I've ended up taking this on because I think he's good, he's up there with my players of the season. It's just that I can see why other people aren't happy, I understand what it is that they're asking for from him, and I agree (to an extent).

It's not about where we are on the field, or which of our players has the ball, or whether we're in transition or whatever other very specific conditions we want to impose. It could apply in any situation really. The point is simply that, on occasion (any given occasion), we could sometimes do with him making himself available to get the ball more often, and to take a little more responsibility for trying to make things happen. There are times when we have teams penned back and the ball is being shunted round between the full backs, Gana, Keane etc, and Sigurdsson does not appear to take it upon himself to get the ball and try to create something, despite him clearly being suited to it than the players we are tasking with that job.

Now you keep saying that's not how he plays, as if people don't understand that. They do understand it, they're saying they don't like it. It is EXACTLY the same as saying that Tosun needs to make more of a nuisance of himself, or that Keane needs to be more of a leader at the back, or that Richarlison needs to stay on his feet more. Just saying 'that's the type of player he is, end of', doesn't really add anything. It's just people giving their opinion on a player, people are welcome to disagree, but time and again the disagreement on this issue is just a point blank refusal to accept the other viewpoint, by saying it's just how he is. That doesn't really happen in any of the other cases, so i'm not sure why Sigurdsson is so special.

And before we have the other argument put forward, I also know that the manager might be happy with how he plays now, but once again, the exact same principle applies to all those other examples.

 

[Lanolin]

Of course you're entitled to say whatever you want but it's undeniably strange to judge a player's output based on how you'd like him to play rather than the way he is clearly being asked by the manager. It's understandable and very reasonable to say "i'd rather he played like this" but you don't phrase it like that, you phrase it as the issue is with Sig when, I imagine, your criticism should be of Silva if you think he is misusing?

But i'm not judging his output on that. I've already said - a lot - that I think his output has been very good. As it's quite abundantly clear that everything I write on here is my opinion, I don't tend to write 'in my opinion...' before every single sentence, because it's superfluous. I've used examples in my post above to try to put across the point in more detail.

 

[mkrudden]

But i'm not judging his output on that. I've already said - a lot - that I think his output has been very good. As it's quite abundantly clear that everything I write on here is my opinion, I don't tend to write 'in my opinion...' before every single sentence, because it's superfluous. I've used examples in my post above to try to put across the point in more detail.

I'm not talking about goals and assists. Instead surely you can't be happy with his intangible output if you think he should be controlling games more?

 

[Lanolin]

I'm not talking about goals and assists. Instead surely you can't be happy with his intangible output if you think he should be controlling games more?

Why not? I can be happy with Bernard's performances but think he should score more, no? I can think Gomes is fantastic but wish he had a little more dynamism to go with the flair? So why does my adoration of Sigurdsson have to be absolute? It's a question I posed in my previous post, and you've immediately proved the point.

 

[mkrudden]

Why not? I can be happy with Bernard's performances but think he should score more, no? I can think Gomes is fantastic but wish he had a little more dynamism to go with the flair? So why does my adoration of Sigurdsson have to be absolute? It's a question I posed in my previous post, and you've immediately proved the point.

No you lunatic, i'm asking, not telling you:

Would it be fair to say that you aren't happy with his output if you think he should be doing more (which is your principle point, isn't it?)?