Heavy Squad Rotation

[SerenityNigh]

I don't see much rotation, outside of AM

 

[Prevenger17]

 

[davek]

Well said. Very well said indeed.

Whilst part of the problem has been Gibson taking so long to get back to fitness only to promptly break again, Martinez also made a mistake by not using Besic effectively in the first part of the season. Right at the start, when Barry was obviously unfit (Leicester, Arsenal, Chelsea) Besic should have been starting - he looked sharp and impressive in pre-season. The moment all three of them were fit the third one should be coming on to replace one of the other two with 20 minutes to go in almost every game, and they should be sharing the starts out more equally.

I'm not advocating rotation for rotation's sake, but I do think that sharing the load is important in keeping players fit and healthy. We should be able to spot around 15 to 20 league games on the schedule in which we can confidently start Besic in CM. I also think we should be actively pursuing Delph as a replacement for Gibson, but that's a topic for another thread.

If this was some old fashioned manager we were talking about then playing individuals until they fall injured might be understandable. But Martinez is a physio and talks a good talk about looking after players. His reluctance to part company with his security blanket though, AKA the Barry/McCarthy cm partnership, casts some doubt on how flexible he is.

 

[Ashtonian]

See sometimes we need to gamble and try and win games. For example, Eto'o wasn't really in the gameon sunday, but other games he has been brilliant for us so you can see why he could start.

Personally i think the subs were wrong on sunday. If osman and mcGeady start on sunday and we maintain the midfield a lot more and eto'o and barkely come on in the second half then i think we perhaps win the game as we offer different options from the bench.

 

[bicycleheader]

Agree 100%. Especially in the centre midfield department where it was most easy to rotate but where Martinez has only acted when Barry and McCarthy have completely broken down.

Scandalous comment he made in the press conference this morning regarding McCarthy's situation:

"It's just been the amount of games he's had to play and he's a very young man, already very experienced and I think we could maybe find the right formula for him to have the right training exposure but it is something that we want to eradicate."

Yes, well that was YOU playing him in all those games, Roberto.

FFS, you'd think someone else was forcing McCarthy out on the pitch against his Martinez's will if you took that nonsense at face value. Now he's trying to undo the mess he created needlessly by looking at a training regime to cut the work load down for McCarthy. Talk about locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

such a chicken licken, everything OTT

 

[davek]

such a chicken licken, everything OTT

Oh I see, cant fault the point so pick up on a word instead. Ok.

Ha Ha.

 

[bicycleheader]

Oh I see, cant fault the point so pick up on a word instead. Ok.

Ha Ha.

no. i would generally make a comment like this because theres a flaw behind the whole point, so for me its not worth discussing to be honest.

you make statements like that all the time. There is nothing outrageous in what he said.

What most managers say matters little. I don´t understand the clucking and squealing over so many little issues and even less your wild leaps of judgement into what is going on in our managers head, to the point where you seem to be convincing yourself what you are saying is fact. Its frankly bizarre at times.

 

[davek]

no. i would generally make a comment like this because theres a flaw behind the whole point, so for me its not worth discussing to be honest.

you make statements like that all the time. There is nothing outrageous in what he said.

What most managers say matters little. I don´t understand the clucking and squealing over so many little issues and even less your wild leaps of judgement into what is going on in our managers head, to the point where you seem to be convincing yourself what you are saying is fact. Its frankly bizarre at times.

I like Martinez. But he's pretty contradictory at times, and this is one of those times. He's said today that McCarthy had to play a lot of games. Well, he didn't have to. He has it within his power to make sure McCarthy sat out a few games, but he didn't choose that option. He's kept him on the pitch more minutes than any other player and he broke down under the workload. I dont see anything controversial or bizarre in pointing that out.

 

[bicycleheader]

I like Martinez. But he's pretty contradictory at times, and this is one of those times. He's said today that McCarthy had to play a lot of games. Well, he didn't have to. He has it within his power to make sure McCarthy sat out a few games, but he didn't choose that option. He's kept him on the pitch more minutes than any other player and he broke down under the workload. I dont see anything controversial or bizarre in pointing that out.

read your own posts back, check your style and see my chicken licken comment again for reference.

don´t have much interest in what they say to the media. I have trust in the manager to be doing the right things behind the scenes and making the right decision. McCarthy is a crucial player. Maybe with a bit more time Besic can mean he doesn´t have to be so crucial, or with a couple more transfer windows the squad in general will look more like what he has planned.

 

[bluemangroup]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

I think Roberto's first choice XI is as follows;

Howard
Coleman Jagielka Stones Baines
Barry McCarthy
Mirallas Barkley Pienaar
Lukaku

But we've not had the chance to play that at all yet this season, to my knowledge. Eto'o and Naismith being central players complicate Barkley's involvement while Pienaar is out, but really I think we just need a new left winger of Mirallas' quality.

 

[1966efc]

C'mon guys. Think of the children ffs.

 

[AndyZ]

whinge about Moyes not rotating players or making changes to his squad.

whinge about Martinez rotating players and utilizing his squad depth.

managers can't win, can they?

 

[canuckblue]

I didn't think the players weighed that much, to be honest. Now, if you wanna talk about heavy squad rotation, there must be an XI on here that would tip the scales at quite a tonnage.

 

[Tree13]

I think Roberto's first choice XI is as follows;

Howard
Coleman Jagielka Stones Baines
Barry McCarthy
Mirallas Barkley Pienaar
Lukaku

But we've not had the chance to play that at all yet this season, to my knowledge. Eto'o and Naismith being central players complicate Barkley's involvement while Pienaar is out, but really I think we just need a new left winger of Mirallas' quality.

I think you're right about the first XI... and that's the problem.

If we want to compete in two or three competitions at a time, we need a group of at least 18 players, from whom we can pick a variety of starting XIs, with no noticeable dropoff - we need competition for places. We don't yet have that, through a combination of some players unable to maintain fitness (eg Alcaraz, Kone, Gibson), some not fitting the type Martinez needs in a specific position (Hibbert for instance: simply can't do what Coleman does) and some just not being the same class as others who play the same position (McGeady for instance, will never be an adequate replacement for Mirallas). We have definite starters, and definite subs. We need to upgrade in a number of spots.

For argument's sake I'd say we have the following NOW:

GK: Howard -- no competition.
RB: Coleman -- no competition. Hibbert can do a job defensively, but the system we play requires far more of the fullback going forward than he can deliver.
CB: Jags, Distin, Stones -- competition. (But not for much longer, due to Distin and Jags' ages). Alcaraz is perma-gash and always injured so does not factor.
LB: Baines, Oviedo, Garbutt -- almost competition; and it will become competition as Baines ages and Garbutt comes into his prime.
CM: Barry, McCarthy, Besic, Gibson -- competition, but it's limited. Barry has not got a lot left in him unless we manage his workload more effectively, and Gibson does not have the fitness to match his talent.
RW: Mirallas -- no competition. McGeady is to Mirallas as Hibbo is to Coleman, and Martinez obviously does not rate Atsu at all.
LW: Pienaar, Oviedo, Mirallas -- competition.... of a sort. Mirallas is FAR better on the left than he is on the right, but he has to play on the right because we have no-one else who is any good there. When Pienaar goes (which surely must be soon), we are in bother.
10: Barkley, Naismith, Osman -- If it is competition, it won't be for long. Osman is all but done, and Naismith and Barkley play the position in totally different ways.
Striker: Lukaku, Eto'o -- competition. IF Kone can make some kind of comeback then the competition increases.

The real question is, who do we have coming through who can change this picture, and how long until they are ready? Does Browning need to go out on loan before we can use him for 15 - 20 starts a season? What about Galloway? Ledson? Lundstram? McAleny? Long?

We need a RW, of similar quality to Mirallas, who can also play 10. We need that player right now, so that we can have competition in the three attacking midfield slots. I also think we need to shift Gibson and bring in Delph.