Jamo Martinez
Player Valuation: £70m
At Villa park watching the game against Norwich, one radio report said that the match had been held up due to crowd trouble.
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Heysal and Hillsborough disasters
- Thread starter Nebbiolo
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I think it was three things, the failure to open the gates, the refusing of medical treatment and the cover up afterwards. Once again, maybe someone can provide the better evidence but hadnt CCTV tapes gone missing that could have helped in the enquiry.
Depends how cynical you are and what you choose to believe.
CCTV tapes always go missing - its not rare. By missing, you could say they were never there in the first place and claimed missing because the person responsible claims he installed new tapes?
Possibly. But its a little mad that they'd go missing isnt it?
Yeah but as I said, you would be surprised how common it is. Its a routine task and it can often be ignored. "Who'll notice if there isn't a tape in it this week.... i'll change it next week"
If the s**t hits the fan, "Wheres the tape?" = "What are you on about, there should be a tape there...."
I worked at a CCTV operator last year, only a week like but the amount of requests which couldn't be filled was ridiculous.
But it can look suspect.
Fair enough.
I know you're on one side of it, and me on the other, but read that Observer article mate. I might interpret it different naturally but I can fully see the frustration based on that alone.
I know you're on one side of it, and me on the other, but read that Observer article mate. I might interpret it different naturally but I can fully see the frustration based on that alone.
Read it, and much more. For a more balanced view though, you have to read much wider. If you make efforts to understand why certain action was taken - take a more impartial approach rather than just quickly condemning actions, you'll have a much greater understanding.
Historical context is required. What was policing priorities at the time?
WHY did officers decide to form a line on the half way line? - Heysel would have been firmly in their mind, if you look at photos from their view, they can just see a stand with fans trying to climb over, it was naturally assumed they would just be hooligans.
From my article "Football games in general were organised in the context of crowd control at the expense of crowd safety"
I typed something there then realised that Im going back all over it again.
Fair enough mate, you have your view - me mine. But the cheap point scoring thing is wrong, this isnt aimed at you like. And many, many fans jump on it because of their dislike of Liverpool FC.
Fair enough mate, you have your view - me mine. But the cheap point scoring thing is wrong, this isnt aimed at you like. And many, many fans jump on it because of their dislike of Liverpool FC.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
Agreed. Nothing wrong with addressing an issue, but there is if it is used to score pathetic points from a rival.
See, I didn't read that from any of the posts really.
Depends how you read into things, odds are if said in person, it may not come across that way.
Theres one or two which come across badly there mate, on the fact it was Liverpool rather than the event.
But I agree, the internet does distort things as Ive said before.
We could have that debate easier as we've met, more often often than not it leads to cyber jihad on here and many other places. I realise the irony, as I fumed in mine like.
Hillsborough was a terrible disaster that affected the whole of merseyside and it should never be forgotten
but it does anoy me when heysel is never mentioned those italian families are suffering the same pain and angusih the families of the hilsborough victims are and they should never be forgoten either
but it does anoy me when heysel is never mentioned those italian families are suffering the same pain and angusih the families of the hilsborough victims are and they should never be forgoten either
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Not sure I buy the whole 'context' line, tbh. Previous activity by football supporters is important in viewing police actions on that day, fair enough. And the system was ultimitely to blame for going with procedure and not having flexibility built into it. Nevertheless, it's a bit too easy to leave it at that. If we're able to say that some supporters should take responsibility for their actions on the day - and there's still plenty of them knocking around who should feel eternal shame and not hide behind their own "context" of 'we always arrived late, we always tried to bunk in' - then the same goes for the police. The tragedy was caused by an unstoppable force of supporters hitting an immoveable object of other supporters down at the fences. Those in command making sure supporters were contained behind those fences should be judged on their decision making. They weren't programmed machines, they were human beings with the power to reflect on what was unfolding and capable of reacting to that. Afterall, Heysel and Bradford were only 4 years before this, so the potential of death at a match shouldn't have been a complete shock to them. It was a problem handed to them by a couple thousand supporters, sure. But they resoponded miserably to the circumstances.
Dave I wasn't saying a historical context is the be all and end all, but it obviously is important when analysing events and offers some explanation.
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