Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
But why did they have to resort to killing ordinary folk, what about Birmingham? Go back into history if you wish and dig up Corbyn's comments on this atrocity. Lets find out exactly what kind of person Corbyn is.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate
- Thread starter summerisle
- Start date
- Status
But why did they have to resort to killing ordinary folk, what about Birmingham? Go back into history if you wish and dig up Corbyn's comments on this atrocity. Lets find out exactly what kind of person Corbyn is.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
This is the daftness of modern politics, though.
Corbyn (and McDonnell) supported Sinn Fein because he wanted (wants) to see a United Ireland and he largely repeated their demand for a demilitarization of the British security apparatus in the North. That is a position its easy to disagree with, but it is somewhat different to applauding the atrocities of the IRA and to criticize it in a simple fashion (which is what the media and his political enemies have done) does run the risk of actually ignoring some of what the British state / the Unionists in charge of things in NI was actually up to.
To invite SF to Parliament, especially so soon after Brighton, was provocative and certainly foolish but it may well have helped to convince SF that there were people at Westminster who they could actually have a conversation with.
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Problem being that the majority of the population of NI wished to remain outside Eire, so why could not that pair recognise the democracy at work a system which they have repeatedly expressed faith in.
You are quite right about the horrible discrimination that was prevalent in NI and UK governments should have stepped into to dissolve this and not by putting the army in. but to remove the security apparatus could that perhaps have exposed the citizens to more violence on both sides. I am sure you will agree with me that the Protestant side was led by one of the biggest bigots in history, no need for me to actually put the name in print.
summerisle
The rain, it raineth every day
The Foreign Secretary is not representing the government's view - diplomacy not his biggest strength, if indeed, he has a strength.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-about-saudi-arabia-not-the-governments-view
Boris Johnson's remarks about Saudi Arabia 'not the government's view'
Boris Johnson was not representing the government’s views on Saudi Arabia when he accused the state of abusing Islam and acting as a puppeteer in proxy wars, Downing Street has said.
The foreign secretary was setting out his own views on Saudi Arabia and Iran at a conference in Rome last week, the prime minister’s spokeswoman said on Thursday, but would be sticking to the government’s line when he visited Saudi ministers this weekend.
The spokeswoman insisted Downing Street had “full confidence in the foreign secretary” but said Saudi Arabia was “a vital partner for the UK, particularly on counter-terrorism and, when you look at what is happening in the region, we are supportive of the Saudi-led coalition which is working in support of the legitimate government in Yemen against Houthi rebels”.
Johnson’s remarks, published in the Guardian, came at an embarrassing moment for Downing Street, emerging shortly after Theresa May returned from a two-day trip to the Gulf where she spoke repeatedly of the closeness of the relationship between the UK and Gulf states.
The foreign secretary had said: “There are politicians who are twisting and abusing religion and different strains of the same religion in order to further their own political objectives. That’s one of the biggest political problems in the whole region. And the tragedy for me – and that’s why you have these proxy wars being fought the whole time in that area – is that there is not strong enough leadership in the countries themselves.”
The foreign secretary then identified Saudi Arabia and Iran specifically, saying: “That’s why you’ve got the Saudis, Iran, everybody, moving in, and puppeteering and playing proxy wars.”
Johnson will travel to Saudi Arabia to meet government ministers on Sunday, but the prime minister’s spokeswoman would not comment on whether he would apologise. “He will be in Saudi Arabia on Sunday and will have the opportunity to set out the way that the UK sees the relationship with Saudi Arabia, the work we want to do with them and other partners in the region to bring an end to the appalling conflict in Yemen which only last night we saw the humanitarian suffering there,” she said.
The Saudi government understood the official position of the government clearly because the prime minister had set it out to the king in person during a bilateral meeting this week, Downing Street insisted.
“The prime minister spoke to the king of Saudi Arabia herself, this week, not just in a bilateral but at the Gulf Cooperation Council and set out very clearly what her position is. I think those in Saudi Arabia heard the prime minister and heard her commitment to enhancing and strengthening this relationship,” the spokeswoman said.
Johnson’s remarks in Italy broke a longstanding UK diplomatic convention not to criticise Saudi Arabia in public. The Saudis will be offended that he put Saudi interference in regional conflicts on a par with Iran’s.
The UK has always said the Saudi-led coalition bombing campaign in Yemen, aided by UK arms and British military advice, is a legitimate attempt to defend Saudi Arabia’s borders.
In the Saudi capital, Riyadh, concern was expressed at the “mixed signals “ being sent by the British after May had delivered a speech in Bahrain underlining the UK’s enduring commitment to the Gulf region.
The Foreign Office was playing down Johnson’s remarks, saying he had been focusing on the need for leadership reaching out across sectarian divides.
Speaking on Wednesday at the Gulf Cooperation Council, the prime minister told Gulf leaders in Bahrain that Iran remained a threat to the stability of the Middle East and the UK would not ignore “aggressive” Iranian actions in Syria and Yemen.
Downing Street sources said May raised Saudi Arabia’s role in the Yemen conflict in her bilateral with King Salman, emphasising the need for a comprehensive Saudi investigation into human rights abuses. She did not call for an independent UN investigation into Saudi forces’ conduct.
Opposition politicians seized on the government divisions, but called on the prime minister to engage with Johnson’s criticisms. The shadow foreign secretary, Emily Thornberry, said the remarks showed “shabby hypocrisy” when Johnson had consistently rejected the argument that Yemen was a proxy war in debates on the conflict in the House of Commons.
“If that is his genuine view, he needs to explain why he ordered his MPs to vote against Labour’s calls in October to suspend support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen, until a lasting ceasefire has been brokered and until alleged violations of international humanitarian law have been properly investigated,” Thornberry said.
“The government cannot complain about Saudi Arabia’s military actions one minute, then continue selling it the arms to prosecute those actions the next. We need to see some consistent principle in the UK’s foreign policy, not more shabby hypocrisy.”
The Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman, Tom Brake, said the foreign secretary was “talking sense” even if he was at odds with official government policy.
“This will be a huge embarrassment to May as she returns from her grubby tour of the Gulf, where she did her best to ignore human rights and desperately push trade at all costs,” Brake said.
“The Conservative government rightly condemned Fidel Castro for his human rights record, but have fallen completely silent when it comes to the appalling record of countries they have been cosying up to in the Middle East.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-about-saudi-arabia-not-the-governments-view
Boris Johnson's remarks about Saudi Arabia 'not the government's view'
Boris Johnson was not representing the government’s views on Saudi Arabia when he accused the state of abusing Islam and acting as a puppeteer in proxy wars, Downing Street has said.
The foreign secretary was setting out his own views on Saudi Arabia and Iran at a conference in Rome last week, the prime minister’s spokeswoman said on Thursday, but would be sticking to the government’s line when he visited Saudi ministers this weekend.
The spokeswoman insisted Downing Street had “full confidence in the foreign secretary” but said Saudi Arabia was “a vital partner for the UK, particularly on counter-terrorism and, when you look at what is happening in the region, we are supportive of the Saudi-led coalition which is working in support of the legitimate government in Yemen against Houthi rebels”.
Johnson’s remarks, published in the Guardian, came at an embarrassing moment for Downing Street, emerging shortly after Theresa May returned from a two-day trip to the Gulf where she spoke repeatedly of the closeness of the relationship between the UK and Gulf states.
The foreign secretary had said: “There are politicians who are twisting and abusing religion and different strains of the same religion in order to further their own political objectives. That’s one of the biggest political problems in the whole region. And the tragedy for me – and that’s why you have these proxy wars being fought the whole time in that area – is that there is not strong enough leadership in the countries themselves.”
The foreign secretary then identified Saudi Arabia and Iran specifically, saying: “That’s why you’ve got the Saudis, Iran, everybody, moving in, and puppeteering and playing proxy wars.”
Johnson will travel to Saudi Arabia to meet government ministers on Sunday, but the prime minister’s spokeswoman would not comment on whether he would apologise. “He will be in Saudi Arabia on Sunday and will have the opportunity to set out the way that the UK sees the relationship with Saudi Arabia, the work we want to do with them and other partners in the region to bring an end to the appalling conflict in Yemen which only last night we saw the humanitarian suffering there,” she said.
The Saudi government understood the official position of the government clearly because the prime minister had set it out to the king in person during a bilateral meeting this week, Downing Street insisted.
“The prime minister spoke to the king of Saudi Arabia herself, this week, not just in a bilateral but at the Gulf Cooperation Council and set out very clearly what her position is. I think those in Saudi Arabia heard the prime minister and heard her commitment to enhancing and strengthening this relationship,” the spokeswoman said.
Johnson’s remarks in Italy broke a longstanding UK diplomatic convention not to criticise Saudi Arabia in public. The Saudis will be offended that he put Saudi interference in regional conflicts on a par with Iran’s.
The UK has always said the Saudi-led coalition bombing campaign in Yemen, aided by UK arms and British military advice, is a legitimate attempt to defend Saudi Arabia’s borders.
In the Saudi capital, Riyadh, concern was expressed at the “mixed signals “ being sent by the British after May had delivered a speech in Bahrain underlining the UK’s enduring commitment to the Gulf region.
The Foreign Office was playing down Johnson’s remarks, saying he had been focusing on the need for leadership reaching out across sectarian divides.
Speaking on Wednesday at the Gulf Cooperation Council, the prime minister told Gulf leaders in Bahrain that Iran remained a threat to the stability of the Middle East and the UK would not ignore “aggressive” Iranian actions in Syria and Yemen.
Downing Street sources said May raised Saudi Arabia’s role in the Yemen conflict in her bilateral with King Salman, emphasising the need for a comprehensive Saudi investigation into human rights abuses. She did not call for an independent UN investigation into Saudi forces’ conduct.
Opposition politicians seized on the government divisions, but called on the prime minister to engage with Johnson’s criticisms. The shadow foreign secretary, Emily Thornberry, said the remarks showed “shabby hypocrisy” when Johnson had consistently rejected the argument that Yemen was a proxy war in debates on the conflict in the House of Commons.
“If that is his genuine view, he needs to explain why he ordered his MPs to vote against Labour’s calls in October to suspend support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen, until a lasting ceasefire has been brokered and until alleged violations of international humanitarian law have been properly investigated,” Thornberry said.
“The government cannot complain about Saudi Arabia’s military actions one minute, then continue selling it the arms to prosecute those actions the next. We need to see some consistent principle in the UK’s foreign policy, not more shabby hypocrisy.”
The Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman, Tom Brake, said the foreign secretary was “talking sense” even if he was at odds with official government policy.
“This will be a huge embarrassment to May as she returns from her grubby tour of the Gulf, where she did her best to ignore human rights and desperately push trade at all costs,” Brake said.
“The Conservative government rightly condemned Fidel Castro for his human rights record, but have fallen completely silent when it comes to the appalling record of countries they have been cosying up to in the Middle East.”
....Labour slipped to 4th in the Sleaford bi-election, be interesting how Corbyn dresses that up. I'd also be interested if Labour have more members than votes received in that constituency because I doubt that tactical voting was an issue.
...there was a view that Tory supporters joined the Labour Party and voted for Corbyn as leader.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
er - Sleaford and North Hykeham is a safe Tory seat and the turnout was just over half that seen at the General Election. I would imagine he will dress it up like that.
..I understand Labour were 2nd at the general election, hardly a sign of progress even if the chasing parties were tightly grouped.
summerisle
The rain, it raineth every day
The train wreck that is Dianne Abbott on Sky News at the moment.
LEONARD
Player Valuation: £60m
Corbyn and his followers honestly think the the Islington intelligentsia, with whom they surround themselves, represent the British working class.
They dress themselves up in Palestinian scarves, and engage in endless internal debates.
Meanwhile increasing sections of the electorate, especially in Scotland and the North are deserting Labour for nationalism and populist right causes.
They will get trounced in the next general election, and I fear we now face a lifetime of Conservative rule.
They dress themselves up in Palestinian scarves, and engage in endless internal debates.
Meanwhile increasing sections of the electorate, especially in Scotland and the North are deserting Labour for nationalism and populist right causes.
They will get trounced in the next general election, and I fear we now face a lifetime of Conservative rule.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
This is what does my head in about the whole debate about Corbyn, that people can just repeat the nonsense the papers spout as absolute fact rather than even slightly engage their own brains.
Take this post of LEONARD's, for instance. If you look at the "Islington intelligentsia" (as the term is generally understood, ie: the champagne socialists who have dominated the PLP since Smith died) - the Blairs, Milibands, Mandlesons, Robinsons, Hodges of this world - they all hate Corbyn, viscerally. Corbyn's support comes from his constituency (which is not in the same part of Islington as where they all lived anyway and is (or at least was) much poorer) and from what remains of the North London Old Labour bloc (the same bloc also explains why North London MPs and councils are far more left wing than South London's MPs and councils are).
What is more, the Islington intelligentsia certainly don't dress themselves up in Palestinian scarves - they are much more likely to be high ups in LFI - and the Labour vote in Scotland (especially) and the North collapsed when they were in power, not when Corbyn was. Even the Brexit vote was actually a reflection that Corbyn's views on the EU were more in line with public opinion than their enthusiastic pro-EU stance was.
- Status