Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[Saint Domingo]

I believe 100% that Holgate has acted in good faith and hasn't made up the accusation out of spite. The thing is there is a huge leap from that to Firmino being guilty of Racism.

There were a hell of a lot of players directly involved in the incident, as well as the Ref and they didn't react. Nothing conclusive has come from the TV footage. So for me there is the real possibility that Holgate may of misheard what was said. Until that possibility is ruled out I don't think we should jump to conclusions. Wait for the investigation to be completed, read the report and then decide.

Apart from the ref losing control of the situation, running off to his 4th official then failing to book Holgate for some unknown reason? Something happened and in the heat of the moment the ref lost control. In a normal situation Holgate gets booked for the push and then cautioned for a reaction as wild as that. Neither happened so something is amiss.

 

[davek]

You mean actually waiting for the investigation to be complete, reading the report and making an informed decision. I think that is much better than jumping to conclusions, backing yourself into a corner and then presumably calling the investigation a sham if it doesn't fit with your wild speculation. Racism is abhorrent. It should be above rivalries.
The irony is that the attitude you have to the RS is pretty identical to the attitude racists have to black people. The only difference is you are seeing things in terms of Red and Blue instead of Black and White.

Please provide some actual evidence to support what you believe happened instead of supposition, guesswork and inference.

Ha Ha Ha.

Absolutely superb work here.

 

[JelavicBrate2]

I believe 100% that Holgate has acted in good faith and hasn't made up the accusation out of spite. The thing is there is a huge leap from that to Firmino being guilty of Racism.

There were a hell of a lot of players directly involved in the incident, as well as the Ref and they didn't react. Nothing conclusive has come from the TV footage. So for me there is the real possibility that Holgate may of misheard what was said. Until that possibility is ruled out I don't think we should jump to conclusions. Wait for the investigation to be completed, read the report and then decide.

I think the problem is this doesn't fit into the narrative around racism in football, where only supporters are racist, particularly those who are poor and White. I've heard, Arsenal fans, both White and Black sing anti Jewish and anti Asian chants. Also I've heard Spurs fans can be quite racist to Black and Asian Arsenal fans. I don't think, that anti Jewish chants would be accepted, if they were sung by our fans or Burnley fans for example.

 

[Goat]

Ha Ha Ha.

Absolutely superb work here.

Shameless this boy aint he Dave, utterly shameless.

 

[4737carlin]

Well the difference then was that they got him by lipreading. While of course footballers have lied about racism in the past such as Diouf, but Holgate doesn't have any reason to lie. The referee wouldn't of failed to send him off, if he didn't think something happened, Holgate wouldn't of touched the ref and risked being sent off, if he hadn't said it.

This is one thing i just cant understand, if the ref heard nowt why didnt he book Holgate for putting his hands on him? You cant do that, so why did the ref let him off? Its makes no sense, its as if the ref new there was a bigger picure here that needed to be death with

 

[Wat Tyler]

This is one thing i just cant understand, if the ref heard nowt why didnt he book Holgate for putting his hands on him? You cant do that, so why did the ref let him off? Its makes no sense, its as if the ref new there was a bigger picure here that needed to be death with

The ref bottled the whole thing. He definitely heard it, and bottled it. They are Special Dispensation FC, we are talking about a club who just had two pens given against them, the ref didn't give either, and because the linesman did, he has been castigated. The PGMO have released a statement simply because of them, you know for a fact any pen given against them will never happen, because of that cryarse t!t Klopp and all their beaut fans.

 

[JelavicBrate2]

This is one thing i just cant understand, if the ref heard nowt why didnt he book Holgate for putting his hands on him? You cant do that, so why did the ref let him off? Its makes no sense, its as if the ref new there was a bigger picure here that needed to be death with

Kopites can't explain that, I'm very much against a lot of the political correctness and the phoney outrage over certain comments, that people have deliberately misinterpreted to support their agenda. However, obviously Holgate was extremely annoyed with the comments made by Firmino, hence is reaction. Yes I know Lukaku and Sakho had a heated argument in a Derby, however they're both French speakers and of African descent so it's a good chance, they were saying things about each others mothers or something that, which probably explained their reactions. However as Holgate and Firmino are from different countries, do not have the same native language, also that fact he spoke to referee touched the referee right after it suggests it wasn't your average insult in English.

 

[ToffeeDan]

I don't know about racist comments but perhaps there was another angle which football finds even harder to cope with... Maybe Roberto made some other comment which Mason took exception to.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Simpler explanation is that Firminiho called Holgate "lovechild of Allardyce".

I'd flip out too.

 

[TheBlueGibbon]

Simpler explanation is that Firminiho called Holgate "lovechild of Allardyce".

I'd flip out too.

If that's true, then I hope the FA does the right thing and asks FIFA to ban Firmino from football for life.

 

[davek]

Shameless this boy aint he Dave, utterly shameless.

Not exactly subtle.

 

[jtl60]

For what its worth, my thoughts are that the FA are at a stalemate in that there is not enough evidence to prove he did say it and and not enough evidence to say he didnt. I reckonthey are talking with lawyers etc to come to an agreement that neither player is seen as in the wrong or right.

 

[Lanolin]

Apart from the ref losing control of the situation, running off to his 4th official then failing to book Holgate for some unknown reason? Something happened and in the heat of the moment the ref lost control. In a normal situation Holgate gets booked for the push and then cautioned for a reaction as wild as that. Neither happened so something is amiss.

This is one thing i just cant understand, if the ref heard nowt why didnt he book Holgate for putting his hands on him? You cant do that, so why did the ref let him off? Its makes no sense, its as if the ref new there was a bigger picure here that needed to be death with

Are we really suggesting that referees always book players for things we think they should book them for?!

Niasse got shoved into the hoardings against Leicester and we didn't even get a free kick nevermind a booking. It certainly wasn't a cast iron booking, and from behind it wouldn't have been clear that the push was quite as vigorous as you see on TV.

Whether the referee heard Holgate being abused isn't really relevant if we're talking about him putting his hands on the ref. We know for certain that Holgate told him he'd been racially abused, so it's perfectly plausible that the referee took that into account and thought he would let him off for being overly physical on the basis that he may have just been the victim of such abuse.

None of us know what happened, and although he reeks of kopite, I can't help agreeing with @Dabluez when he says that we should really not be jumping to the conclusion that somebody is a racist simply because he plays for our rivals.

 

[davek]

For what its worth, my thoughts are that the FA are at a stalemate in that there is not enough evidence to prove he did say it and and not enough evidence to say he didnt. I reckonthey are talking with lawyers etc to come to an agreement that neither player is seen as in the wrong or right.

That wont wash. Holgate would be left distressed that the abuse he received has not been dealt with; Firmino has the question mark hanging over him still that he's a racist.

There has to be a decisive outcome to this.

 

[Tubey]

That wont wash. Holgate would be left distressed that the abuse he received has not been dealt with; Firmino has the question mark hanging over him still that he's a racist.

There has to be a decisive outcome to this.

There won't be. It's one persons word against another sadly.

The outcome will be the cultists will feel hard done to and look to dredge up more dirt on Holgate from when he was a kid to make themselves feel better, as "always the victim, never their fault" is their motto at this point, whilst everyone else with a half a brain will realise Firmino said what he said in a moment of anger and it simply can't be proven. He'd be 'innocent' in the same way OJ Simpson is.