Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[nsno-chris]

What’s Holgate said then? Seen as everyone knows what was said by Firmino. Shouldn’t we just wait to hear the facts ?

Hi mert,

We can only apologise for fielding black players. It’s clearly Everton’s fault, we’ve put in you in this position.

 

[Jack Stark]

Hi mert,

We can only apologise for fielding black players. It’s clearly Everton’s fault, we’ve put in you in this position.

What are you taking about ?

 

[toffeejack]

There is another interpretation to that (I believe he bottled it) but that he chose not to act upon it in that moment because then the issue is not dealt with and will have to be looked at. Effectively he passes it on to his superiors. While no refs would admit it publicly, I do think they will know, if an incident is of such magnitude they know not taking any action means it gets dealt with at the appropriate level.

i thought of this, if he heard what firminho said and sent him off, would that be it? The FA are so stupid with their rules and regulations they'd probably say, the ref dealt with it, 3 match ban only. If he has said something racist, because of what has gone on at that club before, it should be an even longer ban than suarez's. I'm sorry, but if he's been racist the club has not learnt it's lesson clearly. Their idea of standing by a racist during the last occasion was always going to mean another incident like this was going to happen. They may have kick racism out billboards at the stadium, but it's clear as day that club doesn't actually follow that mantra. They are stuck in the dark ages over there. Like i said before, i wouldn't be at all surprised if they release flannagan when he's found guilty because he's nowhere near the first team and try and paint that up as them being a good acting club, but with firminho being an important first team player, they'll be defending him to the hilt.

 

[Tin-Tin]

Should have been two red cards, the referee completely bottled it. Obviously, by the reaction of Holgate, something totally unacceptable was said.

Another angle on the incident but still cant see what Firmino says. Surely there is 1 camera angle from last night that shows clearly what is said.

And why would media outlets run with a race abuse story when there hasn’t been an allegation yet ?

Because its clearly shown that Holgate accuses Firmino of calling him the N word and the ref reported the incident to the 4th official during the game.

 

[Moomin]

What are you taking about ?

Talking

 

[catcherintherye]

RAWKS take on the matter

Quote from: surfer. [Poor language removed] you generator. on Today at 05:25:21 AM
He shoved Firmino into the crowd, if he got called a [Poor language removed] [Poor language removed] in return [Poor language removed] him.
He shoved a player into the crowd, what the hell. You don't need to see a guy land awkwardly as a result and snap his neck for you to start grasping the consequences of that action. Firmino's got off unhurt, still doesn't take away from the potential consequences of what Holgate did.
If Firmino did something unprovoked there's a discussion to be had but something's seriously off if you can assault a guy to provoke him, and then claim to be the injured party. If you start it, take whatever comes your way you [Poor language removed] coward.
Rabid animals, club needs to stop existing.


There's nothing bigger than your well being. A guy goes for that, unprovoked, anything goes. That's the big issue in a contact sport and you've got pages whining about the word response.
I have no take on what was said, haven't done repeated slo mo views but how exactly do you think a physical confrontation goes? A guy throws a punch at you and your brain stops and scans what response is ok and what is not honourable? Come on now.
You're going to go for the one that can cause most damage. Worst case, if Firmino called him a n****r he'll get fined, banned a few games but it's not something I'll hold against the player. Not when he was just assaulted.


They both look the same colour to me...
After watching the incident I doubt the referee wouldn’t have not heard it. Who knows... hope not though..


The ref was inches away when Holgate took offence at what Firmino said. Other players were very close also. Yet Holgate is the only one who reacts.
If Firmino had said anything bad he would have been dismissed there and then surely.
I think Holgate is a prick who should be retrospectively punished for deliberately pushing Firmino into the stand.
I think he probably misheard Firmino or is too thick to understand what was said to him.


As for the fact the initial incident could easily have lead to Firmino breaking his neck or leg or anything going over the hoardings like that, I think Holgate should get an extreme punishment.
I don't believe Firmino was using racial abuse, I think Holgate just played the race card to get away with the incident.


Oh I'm sure all the Everton players and staff will back Holgate. Disgrace of a club, and disgrace of a player. He could have broke the guys neck in what he did. And the Ref is a bottler not sending him off for it. In fact, If I was us as a club, my question is... What warrants dangerous play? Because that is a red card offence.


If it's a fake accusation for avoiding a sending off, Holgate should get a punishment equal to what Bobby or any other player could get for racism.


You can't just go around throwing the race card and accusations of racism unless you are absolutely sure that he said those words. Very strange that no one in the vicinity even flinched when he allegedly said n***ger. Deplorable to cry racism because foreign words sound racist, literally a week after a young black player discussed his brushes with racism. It belittles the topic when accusations can be thrown in circumstances like last night.



Agree with you 100 % , [Poor language removed] bags pulling stunts like this totally ruin it for the the actual genuine cases.



Yep, I think the ref may have done something had Holgate not complicated the situation. Which is why Holgate needs the book throwing at him.



If it is shown that Firmino did not use the N word as alleged then it is clear that the allegations Holgate made were made to avoid a red for violent conduct. He succeeded in not getting any card.

If I were the FA in such a situation Holgate should be banned for a very long time pay a lot in damages to Firmino for slander and Everton should apologise to Firmino.


This needs locking he never said anything racist and it's clear
Your all absolutely insane to be giving this the legs you're giving it

If Holgate has anything about him hell he'll come out today and say he got wrapped up in tje atmosphere and drop the allegations and make an undeserved apology to Firmino.

I have only read a couple of those comments, but whats clear to me is they have absolutely no understanding of what racism is or the negative impact it has.

Once you move beyond the hate (which is very difficult as it's pouring from every sinew) the crux of their argument seems to be;
1) If you're black and do something wrong you have to accept you're fair game for racist abuse.
2) Physical attacks can cause more harm than racist insults.

It's very hard to talk to people who hold either viewpoint. There is an effective political strategy of essentially no platforming people with these views politically. Not bothering to gratify their idiocy with a response. This is what should really happen to Liverpool Football Club now, they should be wound up until they can demonstrably show they can challenge the racist ignorance that permeates their fanbase. This should not just be an 8 game ban job if there was any justice. Of course the FA will bottle it.

I taught children between the ages of 5-10 and all but a small handful could understand racism is not an appropriate response to someone if wronged, and even if you wrong someone you shouldn't expect a racist response. Likewise that words can also be extremely harmful, in a different (but no greater or lesser way) than physical attack. These things that very young children grasp seem well beyond the intellectual reach of adult many Kopites.

 

[kenada_blue]

So Medley has reported it and the FA is investigating.

If there was much ado about nothing...why investigate?

 

[DanB90]

And why would media outlets run with a race abuse story when there hasn’t been an allegation yet ?

There has. It’s in the referees match report.
But no doubt LFC are the victims in all of this, somehow.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Let's not rewrite history. Liverpool adopted it after Liverpool band , Gerry and the Pacemakers , had a No 1 hit with it in the early sixties.

who in turn covered it from the musical Carousel

 

[tadpole]

The referee definitely heard what was said, otherwise why consult with the 4th official? He was bottling an honest reaction to what he knew was racism.

The referee may have been happy enough to award a pen the first time that a Liverpool player threw himself to the floor in the box, but I don't agree that he bottled this one. The fact that he goes to the 4th official to report the incident but doesn't penalise Firmino tells me that he's aware of Holgate's accusation, but can't act on it because he can't verify what was said by Firmino, either because he didn't hear or didn't understand.

 

[toffeejack]

I have only read a couple of those comments, but whats clear to me is they have absolutely no understanding of what racism is or the negative impact it has.

Once you move beyond the hate (which is very difficult as it's pouring from every sinew) the crux of their argument seems to be;
1) If you're black and do something wrong you have to accept you're fair game for racist abuse.
2) Physical attacks can cause more harm than racist insults.

It's very hard to talk to people who hold either viewpoint. There is an effective political strategy of essentially no platforming people with these views politically. Not bothering to gratify their idiocy with a response. This is what should really happen to Liverpool Football Club now, they should be wound up until they can demonstrably show they can challenge the racist ignorance that permeates their fanbase. This should not just be an 8 game ban job if there was any justice. Of course the FA will bottle it.

I taught children between the ages of 5-10 and all but a small handful could understand racism is not an appropriate response to someone if wronged, and even if you wrong someone you shouldn't expect a racist response. Likewise that words can also be extremely harmful, in a different (but no greater or lesser way) than physical attack. These things that very young children grasp seem well beyond the intellectual reach of adult many Kopites.

and i wonder why?

I only read a couple of those posts and had to stop. I'm sorry, but i come from a different world to those "people", i really do.

 

[billyblue80]

Get those t-shirts printed you gang of weapons

 

[Moomin]

There has. It’s in the referees match report.
But no doubt LFC are the victims in all of this, somehow.

It was Chelsea and Firminio was alseep in his hotel room at the time.

 

[bluestevon]

and i wonder why?

I only read a couple of those posts and had to stop. I'm sorry, but i come from a different world to those "people", i really do.

Sorry but any of their black players - actually any of them who wore those t-shirts where utter cretins

 

[DanB90]

The referee may have been happy enough to award a pen the first time that a Liverpool player threw himself to the floor in the box, but I don't agree that he bottled this one. The fact that he goes to the 4th official to report the incident but doesn't penalise Firmino tells me that he's aware of Holgate's accusation, but can't act on it because he can't verify what was said by Firmino, either because he didn't hear or didn't understand.

If the referee has heard nothing, there’s no way Holgate gets away with pushing Firminho and putting his hands on the ref IMO. The refs heard something, realised he’s lost control of the situation and his bottles gone.