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Is Sam that bad?

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Lanolin said:
Yes the eight games was selective obviously, I thought was that clear without needing explanation. I was replying to a post using selective games by using my own selective games. The Southampton and Atalanta games keep getting used to show how bad we were, so I was just trying to highlight that using that example ad infinitum gives a slightly false impression of where we were at. It's why people keep saying they 'couldn't see where the next win was coming from' before Allardyce came, despite us having won 2 and drawn 1 of the last 4 league games before he took charge.

I feel like you're not quite understanding the point i'm making. I know we've got more points under Allardyce than under the others, you don't need to give me stats to show that and I've never suggested it wasn't the case. All i'm saying is that in my opinion - an opinion backed up by the results we achieved in the home games prior to Sam Allardyce signing his contract as Everton manager - we would very quickly have beaten enough teams at home to not be considered as relegation candidates. That's it. Not saying Koeman, or Unsworth, or Silva, or Guardiola would have picked up more points than Allardyce, simply that I think any of those named could have beaten Huddersfield and Swansea at home if they'd been in charge, and had they done so, nobody would have thought we were in a relegation scrap. That in turn means that I can't get on board with the 'Allardyce saved us' shouts, because I do not believe we needed saving.
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We still disagree slightly about the saving thing, as I think we were in a bit of trouble, but appreciate the points you are making there. Still think the issue was deeper than the 2 games though because under Unsworth, we'd just lost 5 in 8 and I think there were problems in attitude etc.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Through no fault of his own the players would not play for Unsworth. We wouldn’t have the point at Anfield, the three at Newcastle or the one v Chelsea at home. We were absolutely horrific away from home under him and defensively wide open. I wouldn’t want to be sat here 5 points less in all likelihood. Also Palace and Leicester are decent away teams so beating them comfortably shouldn’t be derided.
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Both of them were on decent runs at the time too.
 
Lanolin said:
Again, i'm not here to say we should have kept Unsworth or that Allardyce is useless. All i'm saying is that I would be asking very, very serious questions of any manager who had this squad in real trouble at this stage of the season. My belief was always that we would get out of it with the relatively easy run we had coming up, and that's what we did. Some people think that only happened because of Allardyce, I don't.
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So he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
 
gaino92 said:
Calling him a fat mess only strengthens the argument because he is. Any half decent manager could have come in and done what this pint of wine drinking beaut has done and probably more
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Well isn't that a nice bold thing to say seeing as we'll never ever know and it's just absolute pure conjecture and guesswork that can neither be proven or disproven.
 

Worse manager we’ve ever had. Lowering expectations by the day. Just you watch, the second we get 40 points, he will make it all about himself. Despite we have actually never been in danger of relegation. Second he’s fired we’ll start to regain our club back.
 
PeregrineT said:
Yes, he is.

For the simple reason that as much as people malign our roster, we have a quality of players that teams below 8th just cannot match. They dont have the likes of Walcott, Siggurdson, Rooney, Gueye, Coleman, Pickford, and of course Prince Niasse. Hes had success despite himself, because of the quality of player. Its not even so much that we have lost games like the Arsenal game, its how we lost them, and that was because of absolutely stupid tactics. He set the team up to fail and Im not sure anyone would disagree with that, it was bizarre.

The simple matter is hes shown by that he cant take us any better than 7th, and thats just not good enough. NSNO. Any number of other mediocre managers could do what hes done, but there are a lot that will be available that can kick us on. Hes simply not good enough, and thankfully he already demonstrated that to Moshiri.
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Stopped reading at that. No need
 
He's a mercenary brought in to do a job. He has no affiliation or love for the club, that much is patently obvious from some of his recent comments. Then again, he's never been at any club long enough to form any kind of attachment, so it's not a surprise. Bin him after this season.
 

He is not what we are looking for. We needed his ilk the pre-moyes days. Now we are trying to kick on and bring back the glory days of old. We need a winner. He is not a 'winner' in football terms. Hes big fat sam
 
ToffeeJord said:
Worse manager we’ve ever had. Lowering expectations by the day. Just you watch, the second we get 40 points, he will make it all about himself. Despite we have actually never been in danger of relegation. Second he’s fired we’ll start to regain our club back.
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Absolute rubbish.

How can he be the worst? We're sat in 9th. We were 4th from bottom when he came in.

Do you remember Mike Walker?

You might not like the bloke but his performance in terms of points is by far not the worst.
 

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