2024/25 Jake O'Brien


davek said:
I dont deny his career at Everton was fantastic.

I just dont accept he could have done that with Jack Harrison in front of him instead of Pienaar.
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Baines was, indeed, a fantastic footballer, especially at his peak (say around 2011 - 2014). He was better than Cashley, who won lots of caps and lots of cups with glamour club Chelsea, always in the news and assumed by deluded pundits to be better than Baines, who played for poor old Everton, who were obviously not glamorous enough. He simply went about his business in matches and then disappeared between them. Here's a piece from a journalist pondering the 'Baines or Cole for England' debate in 2013.

"Since the start of last season, a look through Opta's figures will confirm Baines has the more accomplished statistics in just about every department. His success rate in tackles in the Premier League this season is 82.4% compared to Cole's 72.7, and 79.3 to 73.4 the previous year. Baines has won 70.7% of what are classified as "ground duels", as opposed to 55.2 for Cole, whereas last season it was much tighter, 61% to 58.2.

"Then consider Baines's extra attacking input. The figures are skewed a little by the fact he has played 49 league games over the two seasons, compared to Cole's 40, but the disparity is still considerable. Baines has put over 289 crosses and created 130 scoring chances. Cole's figures are 59 and 25. Baines has a better ratio of goals, shots and assists and a 57.7% success rate taking on opponents while running. Cole is some way behind, on 18.2%."

I remember seeing lots of other stats around that time that basically proved Baines was better in every aspect, defensively and offensively, barring ariel duels (but he is quite little, eh?). Looks like he'll be a better coach as well!
 
PhilP said:
Baines was, indeed, a fantastic footballer, especially at his peak (say around 2011 - 2014). He was better than Cashley, who won lots of caps and lots of cups with glamour club Chelsea, always in the news and assumed by deluded pundits to be better than Baines, who played for poor old Everton, who were obviously not glamorous enough. He simply went about his business in matches and then disappeared between them. Here's a piece from a journalist pondering the 'Baines or Cole for England' debate in 2013.

"Since the start of last season, a look through Opta's figures will confirm Baines has the more accomplished statistics in just about every department. His success rate in tackles in the Premier League this season is 82.4% compared to Cole's 72.7, and 79.3 to 73.4 the previous year. Baines has won 70.7% of what are classified as "ground duels", as opposed to 55.2 for Cole, whereas last season it was much tighter, 61% to 58.2.

"Then consider Baines's extra attacking input. The figures are skewed a little by the fact he has played 49 league games over the two seasons, compared to Cole's 40, but the disparity is still considerable. Baines has put over 289 crosses and created 130 scoring chances. Cole's figures are 59 and 25. Baines has a better ratio of goals, shots and assists and a 57.7% success rate taking on opponents while running. Cole is some way behind, on 18.2%."

I remember seeing lots of other stats around that time that basically proved Baines was better in every aspect, defensively and offensively, barring ariel duels (but he is quite little, eh?). Looks like he'll be a better coach as well!
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Baines was also fantastic at free kicks and penalties, much better than Ashley but not at a glamour club down South.
 

davek said:
I think it was simply down to this:

Dyche plays a back 4.

Trakowski and Branthwaite would never lose their place to a PL novice CB like O'Brien. His RB plans began and stopped with his mate Ashley Young.

The mundane explanation is always the most compelling one in the end. There was no conspiracy to keep O'Brien out.
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Dave, not conspiracy but definitely stubborn myopic stupidity.
 
Want to see what he can do with Branthwaite at centre back, quite excited at what they could become...BUT feel we may lose Branthwaite before we get to see it.
 
davek said:
O'Brien is doing a great job at RB under the circumstances and he's defo the best player we have in that position at the moment.

However, he's not the answer for us at RB.

He can certainly tidy up there and play out from that position, but if you look at him closely he doesn't get out and close down wingers on that side, he leaves that up to Lindstrom. In fact, he's pretty ineffectual at challenging near the box when he's facing up to an attacker over there (in the box I applaud that because he rightly sees danger in a big frame like his being turned easily or a savvy winger falling over one of those long legs of his) but outside of it he should be tackling.

I also dont think he's a great option in getting down the line and whipping balls into the box. Neither is Mykolenko and we haven't had a creative FB option since Coleman was fully fit.

I give him 9/10 for impact since he came into the team, but this lad is a CB all day long. And I think he can be a Stones type ball carrier...though not under Moyes.

Destined for a very big club in a couple of years time.
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Agree he's not really a RB and fair point about some of the weaknesses.
I'd argue though there would be less than a handful of teams in Europe with greater potential to suceed at going 3 at the back with JB on the L and JOB on the R. They've got all the specific hybrid attributes of such a position.

The thing about playing 3CB is you also need the specific attributes for LWB/RWB to partner them (prob should be called L and R all rounders). All the weaknesses you mention are sorted by these positions.
If they found these types of players this team could be very special (and given obv forward improvement)
Whether Moyes will go this way is another matter. But it's cert a tantalising prospect
 
mahermi1 said:
Baines was also fantastic at free kicks and penalties, much better than Ashley but not at a glamour club down South.
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This. He was still amazing even without Piennar. He was our best attacker, best passer, best dribbler, best crosser and best shooter for most his time at the club. He could easily have played for Barca or Real Madrid.
 

Blue Roo said:
Agree he's not really a RB and fair point about some of the weaknesses.
I'd argue though there would be less than a handful of teams in Europe with greater potential to suceed at going 3 at the back with JB on the L and JOB on the R. They've got all the specific hybrid attributes of such a position.
The thing about playing 3CB is you also need the specific attributes for LWB/RWB to partner them (prob should be called L and R all rounders). All the weaknesses you mention are sorted by these positions. If they found these types of players this team could be very special (and given obv forward improvement)
Whether Moyes will go this way is another matter. But it's cert a tantalising prospect
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Has he ever been anything other than a 4231 manager?
 
davek said:
Has he ever been anything other than a 4231 manager?
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Yeah, why change? And why risk?
Besides the fact he'd need to find someone of the same mould, or two, to sit on the bench, he also needs those all rounders.
Whereas rotate JB, JOB and Tarks and he's strong and sorted, with another up and comer to come.
The thing is any flush club playing 3CBs will be seriously interested.
The club has to take a stand and build.
There's something to be said, in intent and spirit, in JB and JOB coming out and defending the new stadium.
 

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