2022/23 James Garner

[davek]

Than we're just throwing away a talent !!

And what kind of picture does that paint for our future under Dyche


( Personally I think he will go 3 in the middle and save us from that worry )

Highly doubtful.

He's not a 433 manager.

Next season we'll resemble Dyche's Burnley...which is not a bad thing if you have slightly better quality to go with it and your remit is to stay in this league.

 

[davek]

Probably dependent on Obama’s situation. If he stays then we really need to be getting him into the team in his best position which for me is the sole DM. That’s where he played when we bought him. He’s shown nothing going forward and has the height to deal with goalkicks without a CB stepping out.

I think we need to move away from Gueye in the DM role. He’s been good this season but Doucoure’s absence showed that we get run through when there’s not runners ahead of him.

For me I’d look to have Onana DM with Gueye the cover for that position. Then get two midfielders to compete with Garner and Doucoure for the two other positions.

Do you think Dyche keeps three in the middle next season?

I believe he's only gone that way this season because of very specific circumstances: the lack of forwards who can play his preferred system.

I feel sure we'll end up at least in a 4411 where the player sitting in behind the target man creates an extra body in CM when required.

Onana's sure to go IMO if the right bid comes in, because I think he values Gueye and Doucoure more in any case and the cash will be needed to rebuild.

That's not to say Garner doesn't end up in the middle of the park. But if as I think he abandons 3 in the middle then something has to give. And IMO Garner looks very adaptable. So he might be a victim of his own adaptability and asked to slot in here and there. There's no shame in that like. Moyes had a few who could do that.

 

[roy vernon]

Highly doubtful.

He's not a 433 manager.

Next season we'll resemble Dyche's Burnley...which is not a bad thing if you have slightly better quality to go with it and your remit is to stay in this league.

He'scnot a stupid manager either Dave. He has had time to weigh up his options, he will by now have realised that he just doesn't have the personnel for 442. If that's ot the case and he decides to go with a central midfield 2, he will be rightfully be sacked as we wouldget destroyed week after week. He won't have the money available to bring in a quality box to box midfielder this summer, so, even if he is daft enough to go with a 2, that 2 could only be Garner and Onana. Even at that wed still struggle. He'll go 451 and on occasion 352, I know your desperate for Patterson not to play, but, playing Patterson is better than wasting our only creative midfielder at right back. I'd sooner have Iwobi there than Garner.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Do you think Dyche keeps three in the middle next season?

I believe he's only gone that way this season because of very specific circumstances: the lack of forwards who can play his preferred system.

I feel sure we'll end up at least in a 4411 where the player sitting in behind the target man creates an extra body in CM when required.

Onana's sure to go IMO if the right bid comes in, because I think he values Gueye and Doucoure more in any case and the cash will be needed to rebuild.

That's not to say Garner doesn't end up in the middle of the park. But if as I think he abandons 3 in the middle then something has to give. And IMO Garner looks very adaptable. So he might be a victim of his own adaptability and asked to slot in here and there. There's no shame in that like. Moyes had a few who could do that.

I think even if we play a 4411 we’d have to seriously improve the other areas before he turns that 1 behind the striker into a second striker position. If he’s going with Doucoure that’s the only position he’ll play, he won’t move further back into midfield. In fairness this is pretty much the formation we play now.

When we lost Doucoure though and put other players there it showed that the midfield 2 can’t stand by itself. So I think he either tries Onana and Garner as the two, and try and get a second striker in, or he keeps Docuoure where he is and then he could carry Gueye in midfield again.

 

[davek]

He'scnot a stupid manager either Dave. He has had time to weigh up his options, he will by now have realised that he just doesn't have the personnel for 442. If that's ot the case and he decides to go with a central midfield 2, he will be rightfully be sacked as we wouldget destroyed week after week. He won't have the money available to bring in a quality box to box midfielder this summer, so, even if he is daft enough to go with a 2, that 2 could only be Garner and Onana. Even at that wed still struggle. He'll go 451 and on occasion 352, I know your desperate for Patterson not to play, but, playing Patterson is better than wasting our only creative midfielder at right back. I'd sooner have Iwobi there than Garner.

Patterson doesn't come into the conversation if it's a flat back four. I mean, I;d prefer Garner over him in that position. Just one performance suggested his aptitiude in that position. But there;s no way Duche will play him there apaert from if there';s an injury crisis there.

 

[Osamabindiesel]

If we move on from Iwobi (and don’t sign a right midfielder) I can see Garner being used as a false right midfielder that allows Patterson to go beyond him and he provides cover. It would allow us to have all of our guys on the pitch and Garner has shown he is capable of playing around the wing. He would still technically be able to perform his best role from there in that setup. I am curious to see how we approach the transfer market and what we prioritize.

 

[davek]

I think even if we play a 4411 we’d have to seriously improve the other areas before he turns that 1 behind the striker into a second striker position. If he’s going with Doucoure that’s the only position he’ll play, he won’t move further back into midfield. In fairness this is pretty much the formation we play now.

When we lost Doucoure though and put other players there it showed that the midfield 2 can’t stand by itself. So I think he either tries Onana and Garner as the two, and try and get a second striker in, or he keeps Docuoure where he is and then he could carry Gueye in midfield again.

IIRC when Doucoure was suspended we also lost Onana for 2 games. It was Garner and Gueye who were the MF duo over run against Fulham, for example. But the reason 442 was wrong that day was because the two up front were Maupay and Gray.

Two proper forwards in here next season will transform the way we set up elsewhere.

 

[JLW]

Do you think Dyche keeps three in the middle next season?

I believe he's only gone that way this season because of very specific circumstances: the lack of forwards who can play his preferred system.

I feel sure we'll end up at least in a 4411 where the player sitting in behind the target man creates an extra body in CM when required.

Onana's sure to go IMO if the right bid comes in, because I think he values Gueye and Doucoure more in any case and the cash will be needed to rebuild.

That's not to say Garner doesn't end up in the middle of the park. But if as I think he abandons 3 in the middle then something has to give. And IMO Garner looks very adaptable. So he might be a victim of his own adaptability and asked to slot in here and there. There's no shame in that like. Moyes had a few who could do that.

Dave you need two very very comfortable ball players to play a 2 man midfield and Gana and Doucoure are anything but that.
One is good winning the ball the other is good when there is space to run into, keeping possession though they both stink at that.

 

[davek]

Dave you need two very very comfortable ball players to play a 2 man midfield and Gana and Doucoure are anything but that.
One is good winning the ball the other is good when there is space to run into, keeping possession though they both stink at that.

Mate, I've said all along in this debate that I'm not proferring that as a way forward as a system or those two as the players to slot in there. My point has been that Dyche, with his own forward(s) in there, will reach for his comfort blanket of a 442 system. Hes based his whole career on it and only the lack of forwards who could play the system stopped him using it per se with us.

Let's see who he brings in during the summer. It'll be fascinating to say the least.

 

[Zatara]

If we move on from Iwobi (and don’t sign a right midfielder) I can see Garner being used as a false right midfielder that allows Patterson to go beyond him and he provides cover. It would allow us to have all of our guys on the pitch and Garner has shown he is capable of playing around the wing. He would still technically be able to perform his best role from there in that setup. I am curious to see how we approach the transfer market and what we prioritize.

Makes sense and I was thinking about Garner on the right (somewhat bizarrely) before he played there for us. But only musing about how David Bentley and David Beckham were used there and whether it may give Garner more space to dicate the play and provide through balls.

Garner had strong goal (4) and assist (8) stats at Forest as well though so thats something that Dyche needs to utilise.

Dave you need two very very comfortable ball players to play a 2 man midfield and Gana and Doucoure are anything but that.
One is good winning the ball the other is good when there is space to run into, keeping possession though they both stink at that.

Thats exactly right.

Instead if you play Garner (who rarely gives the ball away, is a ball player with a bit of snide) and Onana (who with better players for Belgium in a deeper role looks top notch) you have the best of both worlds.

Wolves with Moutinho and Neves showed the way and theyre far more similar to Garner/Onana than Gana/Doucoure.

Gana/Doucoure wouldnt know what to do as a pairing...if they won the ball what would they do with it lol

 

[Swartzy]

Highly doubtful.

He's not a 433 manager.

Next season we'll resemble Dyche's Burnley...which is not a bad thing if you have slightly better quality to go with it and your remit is to stay in this league.

I think he proved that he's comfortable working with a 3 in the middle formation.

Dyche hasn't taken up the the chance to manage in the the premier league again to head straight back to the restraints of Burnley.
He's gonna want to show the world he has more to his game as a manager..

 

[DualityNSNO]

I think he proved that he's comfortable working with a 3 in the middle formation.

Dyche hasn't taken up the the chance to manage in the the premier league again to head straight back to the restraints of Burnley.
He's gonna want to show the world he has more to his game as a manager..

I mean we got him exactly because of it - working with nothing to get some sort of result somehow. In a way - he has absolutely done exactly that lol

Shockingly with a 4-5-1 (or 4-4-1-1 if you wanna call it that) but also we had limited choices.

 

[Swartzy]

I mean we got him exactly because of it - working with nothing to get some sort of result somehow. In a way - he has absolutely done exactly that lol

Shockingly with a 4-5-1 (or 4-4-1-1 if you wanna call it that) but also we had limited choices.

Yeah we bought him in to save us from Relegation, and he done that.... but he now has to take it to a different level where he's not at the club just to save us !! He needs a next step, different strategies, or he wont last past BMD..

And how many times did he shift from a 3 man midfield when he had the option !!!

 

[DualityNSNO]

Yeah we bought him in to save us from Relegation, and he done that.... but he now has to take it to a different level where he's not at the club just to save us !! He needs a next step, different strategies, or he wont last past BMD..

And how many times did he shift from a 3 man midfield when he had the option !!!

A few - every single one of those we got absolutely battered.
All because Doucoure is clearly the only living human being able to play behind the striker, no less.

 

[Swartzy]

A few - every single one of those we got absolutely battered.
All because Doucoure is clearly the only living human being able to play behind the striker, no less.

Haha yeah and that's why we've given him the 12month extension.

I very much doubt we'll be bringing much in again, so if we can just get a few in the the most obvious places, I expect we will see the same kind of set-up again next season with 3 in the middle.

It's all about getting to BMD with FFP Sanctions all cleared and still residing in the premiership.
And then we will be looking at a whole new structure..