January Transfer Thread 2017

[Neiziro]

Jese Rodriguez available on loan. Surely we should be in there?

Very average player. Swerve.

 

[windymiller]

I've not said anywhere that Mirallas stole a living....I said he's had seasons of lack of interest/effort. You're right....others have been the same. My comparison was based on the fact that Mirallas gets his name sung at games whilst Niasse doesn't get a locker, gets vilified and turfed out. The real villain of the piece is the scouting team which followed him and signed him if he's as bad as we are led to believe.

The only person stealing a living here is Darron Gibson. Everyone else out of the team plays for the u23s or goes out on loan. Gibson goes to the pub and runs over cyclists.

 

[catcherintherye]

Another excellently crafted contribution here mate. I agree with your analysis. You are correct that each transfer will be the result of agreement/compromise between Moshiri and the board, Koeman, and Walsh. I also think that if there are any deals between now and TDD, they will be at Walsh's end of the spectrum - younger, more obscure, and cheaper.

I actually hope that the majority of new signings fall into the "Walsh" category - not only will we need the numbers, but I don't think the resources are there for a big spend, particularly if Lukaku decided to stay. 5 "Koeman" signings would probably cost £125-£130m at today's rates.

We also need to buy young and relatively cheap where we can, in order to sell high seasons later. Personally I am fine with this. A good signing is one that either gives us 10 years of good service, or can be sold for several multiples of what we paid. This is just the way it is for a club in our position. Not that I wouldn't ideally want our best players to stay and always will, but who knows how much Lookman might be worth in 3 or 4 years, for example?

We are in a period now where I think we will see far more fluidity in player comings and goings than we are used to, particularly under the relative stagnation in the Moyes' years, as consistent as we were back then. I think this is exciting, and we have the structure in place now where we should be able to cope with a more profound turnover in the squad every 3-4 years.

Two other points that strike me;
1) The so-called "marquee" signing - I agree that Moshiri would like us to land one if possible, but are we are the stage where we can attract such, probably not. I would not put Kessie in that bracket, others might if we signed him ahead of Chelsea. You could describe him as being at the high-end of Walsh's range - a premium signing in the young, but not cheap category. If we paid £25-£30m for such a player, there isn't the same potential for a big return but conversely, the odds increase that he would be the sort of player to make a big impact quickly.

Being naturally pessimistic, maybe there's nothing in it, but his profile is the ideal type we should be going after - look at Spurs for example with Eriksen who was under the radar when signed, and years before, Modric.

2) We have yet to sign a player from a club outside the UK under the new regime. I wasn't keen on Belfodil, but even so it wasn't a great example of us at our best. Even with Deulofeu going to Milan (and I blame them for last evening's farce), I'm not sure if we have streamlined our operation properly on the continent in building relationships and networks. We seem to have an adequate scouting process, but with a player premium on transfers for English clubs, we will have to get it right in Europe, in order to make the best possible use of whatever budgets are available.

You too buddy. I think you are right in that Walsh will have more of a role. Koeman put his foot down over Schneiderlin but as he spends more time with us, the number of players he wants from former teams will decline as they get older or move on. It's interesting we didn't make a major play for Fonte as well. Had it been the summer I suspect we'd have got a deal done there. I think there may be more movement but it will be Walsh making the running.

I sense this is why it has gone quiet all of a sudden. We know Walsh's targets are more obscure and he keeps his cards tightly to his chest. With good reason too, most people in football will look at who he is after and take a look at them themselves. Moving discretely and quickly is key to making Walsh's tactics work. Discretion and speed. I think we will see more from Walsh this window, but it does;t seem imperative. maybe a defeat against Southampton will see another tirade from Koeman. I am doubtful though, he seems happier now, I think he wanted Schneiderlin and will probably regard anything Walsh gives him over and above that as a bonus.

I agree with you regarding trading. We have generally traded well often in difficult circumstances. Outside of Rooney it's hard to think of a player we've sold really proving their worth elsewhere. While it killed us to lose such players, the trading often made sense and allowed us to evolve as a team. The introduction of FFP meaning City/Chelsea can't throw silly money anymore has probably damaged us more than anyone as we were the ones in the food chain they bought off.

Maybe it's being a selling club, but to me it's just knowing your place in the chain. Take VVD, we can make a pitch which is, come to us, improve further under Koeman as you did previously, showcase yourself in Europe maybe CL and min 3 years you may well move on to Real Madrid/Barca (or Manchester United). If you go to such a club now, look at Stones, look at Zouma, look at Phil Jones. All promising centre halves who wilted under the pressure. It's about understanding our role.

Walsh's signings are the key for us going forward. As you said financially we cannot keep signing lads who are late 20's as it's not cost effective. Also as a side, we simply will never attract the best lads who are in their prime. We will always get the tier below. We are better serviced buying the best younger players we can, and hoping Koeman can mould them, as he is showing currently. I do acknowledge sometimes the manager needs a stopgap. In the summer we need some immediate remedy, and Schneiderlin could appear to be a deal too good to miss out on, but you can see our transfers shifting and that is no bad thing.

I agree with you entirely on Marguee signing and Kessie. I wouldn't say Koeman fits both Moshiri and Walsh really, but it was more just a point to say players we bring in won't automatically fit into 1 box easily, but they will be the broad and overlapping categories. He is an ideal signing though. You are right to say Spurs specialised in them over the years. Our advantage over them was that we were better at blooding and improving players. Now they've got a manager who does that successfully for the first time in 15 years it has culminated in an improved league performance. It's no surprise.

As for not signing from outside of the leagues I do think this will change. It has too. it's not economically viable to buy from the PL.It's a luxury, and with our place in the food chain one we can't afford. We have bought some experienced heads to stop the rot of last season but I can't see it going on. This is where the role of the youth academy become central, in helping is develop an English core, as opposed to buying one in.

There was also some talk of David Dein coming in, unfortunately that hasn't happened. I hope it does as he was a fantastic closer of deals. I would say this is Walsh's weakness. He identifies well but someone to help him close like Dein would play a big part in moving us forward.

As I've said, I think we will see more signings before TDD but we are probably bidding our time. The emergence of Davies, improvement of DCL and the positivity around Lookman (read Koeman's comments today) and you can see that maybe the necessity isn't as great as maybe it felt 2 months ago. Holgate has also stepped in. Lets not forget we were very close to adding Martina from Southampton. Thank goodness that didn't come off!

I also think the names will be obscure. We have to use trading as a way to help bridge the gap between us and the top 6 teams. We are trying to close that with sponsorship and a new ground, but smart trading will help too. In spite of some of the lazy recycled stereotypes from embittered Southampton fans, it's clear to see Koeman will play and improve young players. Get him 8 or 10 promising lads under 22-23 and if he has 3-4 years with them I think the sky's the limit. That is our challenge now.

 

[JLW]

You too buddy. I think you are right in that Walsh will have more of a role. Koeman put his foot down over Schneiderlin but as he spends more time with us, the number of players he wants from former teams will decline as they get older or move on. It's interesting we didn't make a major play for Fonte as well. Had it been the summer I suspect we'd have got a deal done there. I think there may be more movement but it will be Walsh making the running.

I sense this is why it has gone quiet all of a sudden. We know Walsh's targets are more obscure and he keeps his cards tightly to his chest. With good reason too, most people in football will look at who he is after and take a look at them themselves. Moving discretely and quickly is key to making Walsh's tactics work. Discretion and speed. I think we will see more from Walsh this window, but it does;t seem imperative. maybe a defeat against Southampton will see another tirade from Koeman. I am doubtful though, he seems happier now, I think he wanted Schneiderlin and will probably regard anything Walsh gives him over and above that as a bonus.

I agree with you regarding trading. We have generally traded well often in difficult circumstances. Outside of Rooney it's hard to think of a player we've sold really proving their worth elsewhere. While it killed us to lose such players, the trading often made sense and allowed us to evolve as a team. The introduction of FFP meaning City/Chelsea can't throw silly money anymore has probably damaged us more than anyone as we were the ones in the food chain they bought off.

Maybe it's being a selling club, but to me it's just knowing your place in the chain. Take VVD, we can make a pitch which is, come to us, improve further under Koeman as you did previously, showcase yourself in Europe maybe CL and min 3 years you may well move on to Real Madrid/Barca (or Manchester United). If you go to such a club now, look at Stones, look at Zouma, look at Phil Jones. All promising centre halves who wilted under the pressure. It's about understanding our role.

Walsh's signings are the key for us going forward. As you said financially we cannot keep signing lads who are late 20's as it's not cost effective. Also as a side, we simply will never attract the best lads who are in their prime. We will always get the tier below. We are better serviced buying the best younger players we can, and hoping Koeman can mould them, as he is showing currently. I do acknowledge sometimes the manager needs a stopgap. In the summer we need some immediate remedy, and Schneiderlin could appear to be a deal too good to miss out on, but you can see our transfers shifting and that is no bad thing.

I agree with you entirely on Marguee signing and Kessie. I wouldn't say Koeman fits both Moshiri and Walsh really, but it was more just a point to say players we bring in won't automatically fit into 1 box easily, but they will be the broad and overlapping categories. He is an ideal signing though. You are right to say Spurs specialised in them over the years. Our advantage over them was that we were better at blooding and improving players. Now they've got a manager who does that successfully for the first time in 15 years it has culminated in an improved league performance. It's no surprise.

As for not signing from outside of the leagues I do think this will change. It has too. it's not economically viable to buy from the PL.It's a luxury, and with our place in the food chain one we can't afford. We have bought some experienced heads to stop the rot of last season but I can't see it going on. This is where the role of the youth academy become central, in helping is develop an English core, as opposed to buying one in.

There was also some talk of David Dein coming in, unfortunately that hasn't happened. I hope it does as he was a fantastic closer of deals. I would say this is Walsh's weakness. He identifies well but someone to help him close like Dein would play a big part in moving us forward.

As I've said, I think we will see more signings before TDD but we are probably bidding our time. The emergence of Davies, improvement of DCL and the positivity around Lookman (read Koeman's comments today) and you can see that maybe the necessity isn't as great as maybe it felt 2 months ago. Holgate has also stepped in. Lets not forget we were very close to adding Martina from Southampton. Thank goodness that didn't come off!

I also think the names will be obscure. We have to use trading as a way to help bridge the gap between us and the top 6 teams. We are trying to close that with sponsorship and a new ground, but smart trading will help too. In spite of some of the lazy recycled stereotypes from embittered Southampton fans, it's clear to see Koeman will play and improve young players. Get him 8 or 10 promising lads under 22-23 and if he has 3-4 years with them I think the sky's the limit. That is our challenge now.

Very good point mate!

 

[JustOpp]

Excellent conversation in here. Shouts @catcherintherye and @brieverton.

 

[JLW]

You too buddy. I think you are right in that Walsh will have more of a role. Koeman put his foot down over Schneiderlin but as he spends more time with us, the number of players he wants from former teams will decline as they get older or move on. It's interesting we didn't make a major play for Fonte as well. Had it been the summer I suspect we'd have got a deal done there. I think there may be more movement but it will be Walsh making the running.

I sense this is why it has gone quiet all of a sudden. We know Walsh's targets are more obscure and he keeps his cards tightly to his chest. With good reason too, most people in football will look at who he is after and take a look at them themselves. Moving discretely and quickly is key to making Walsh's tactics work. Discretion and speed. I think we will see more from Walsh this window, but it does;t seem imperative. maybe a defeat against Southampton will see another tirade from Koeman. I am doubtful though, he seems happier now, I think he wanted Schneiderlin and will probably regard anything Walsh gives him over and above that as a bonus.

I agree with you regarding trading. We have generally traded well often in difficult circumstances. Outside of Rooney it's hard to think of a player we've sold really proving their worth elsewhere. While it killed us to lose such players, the trading often made sense and allowed us to evolve as a team. The introduction of FFP meaning City/Chelsea can't throw silly money anymore has probably damaged us more than anyone as we were the ones in the food chain they bought off.

Maybe it's being a selling club, but to me it's just knowing your place in the chain. Take VVD, we can make a pitch which is, come to us, improve further under Koeman as you did previously, showcase yourself in Europe maybe CL and min 3 years you may well move on to Real Madrid/Barca (or Manchester United). If you go to such a club now, look at Stones, look at Zouma, look at Phil Jones. All promising centre halves who wilted under the pressure. It's about understanding our role.

Walsh's signings are the key for us going forward. As you said financially we cannot keep signing lads who are late 20's as it's not cost effective. Also as a side, we simply will never attract the best lads who are in their prime. We will always get the tier below. We are better serviced buying the best younger players we can, and hoping Koeman can mould them, as he is showing currently. I do acknowledge sometimes the manager needs a stopgap. In the summer we need some immediate remedy, and Schneiderlin could appear to be a deal too good to miss out on, but you can see our transfers shifting and that is no bad thing.

I agree with you entirely on Marguee signing and Kessie. I wouldn't say Koeman fits both Moshiri and Walsh really, but it was more just a point to say players we bring in won't automatically fit into 1 box easily, but they will be the broad and overlapping categories. He is an ideal signing though. You are right to say Spurs specialised in them over the years. Our advantage over them was that we were better at blooding and improving players. Now they've got a manager who does that successfully for the first time in 15 years it has culminated in an improved league performance. It's no surprise.

As for not signing from outside of the leagues I do think this will change. It has too. it's not economically viable to buy from the PL.It's a luxury, and with our place in the food chain one we can't afford. We have bought some experienced heads to stop the rot of last season but I can't see it going on. This is where the role of the youth academy become central, in helping is develop an English core, as opposed to buying one in.

There was also some talk of David Dein coming in, unfortunately that hasn't happened. I hope it does as he was a fantastic closer of deals. I would say this is Walsh's weakness. He identifies well but someone to help him close like Dein would play a big part in moving us forward.

As I've said, I think we will see more signings before TDD but we are probably bidding our time. The emergence of Davies, improvement of DCL and the positivity around Lookman (read Koeman's comments today) and you can see that maybe the necessity isn't as great as maybe it felt 2 months ago. Holgate has also stepped in. Lets not forget we were very close to adding Martina from Southampton. Thank goodness that didn't come off!

I also think the names will be obscure. We have to use trading as a way to help bridge the gap between us and the top 6 teams. We are trying to close that with sponsorship and a new ground, but smart trading will help too. In spite of some of the lazy recycled stereotypes from embittered Southampton fans, it's clear to see Koeman will play and improve young players. Get him 8 or 10 promising lads under 22-23 and if he has 3-4 years with them I think the sky's the limit. That is our challenge now.

Its already taking shape, you look at the youngsters being brought into the team Davies, DCL, Holgate right there is a spine of a team in 2-3 years from now (Providing their progress continues), coupled with 3-4 shrewd (Gana) type signings from Walsh then things are looking really good. The average age of the team and squad is already starting to tumble, thats also another positive.

From Moshiri's side if he could get us 1 maybe 2 'BIG' signings in by the start of next season, then there is no reason why we cant mix it with the teams above us.
For certain we are moving in the right direction!!

 

[Callum_efc]

It has gone very very quiet on the transfer front.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

It has gone very very quiet on the transfer front.

Indeed. Final week of the window coming up though, so if anything I expect it will pick up again.

 

[windymiller]

Excellent conversation in here. Shouts @catcherintherye and @brieverton.

Bromance

 

[blulouie]

Not his fault mate. What's he supposed to do turn down the offer we made and say he doesn't deserve it?

No

But you've totally missed the point.

 

[Wat Tyler]

You too buddy. I think you are right in that Walsh will have more of a role. Koeman put his foot down over Schneiderlin but as he spends more time with us, the number of players he wants from former teams will decline as they get older or move on. It's interesting we didn't make a major play for Fonte as well. Had it been the summer I suspect we'd have got a deal done there. I think there may be more movement but it will be Walsh making the running.

I sense this is why it has gone quiet all of a sudden. We know Walsh's targets are more obscure and he keeps his cards tightly to his chest. With good reason too, most people in football will look at who he is after and take a look at them themselves. Moving discretely and quickly is key to making Walsh's tactics work. Discretion and speed. I think we will see more from Walsh this window, but it does;t seem imperative. maybe a defeat against Southampton will see another tirade from Koeman. I am doubtful though, he seems happier now, I think he wanted Schneiderlin and will probably regard anything Walsh gives him over and above that as a bonus.

I agree with you regarding trading. We have generally traded well often in difficult circumstances. Outside of Rooney it's hard to think of a player we've sold really proving their worth elsewhere. While it killed us to lose such players, the trading often made sense and allowed us to evolve as a team. The introduction of FFP meaning City/Chelsea can't throw silly money anymore has probably damaged us more than anyone as we were the ones in the food chain they bought off.

Maybe it's being a selling club, but to me it's just knowing your place in the chain. Take VVD, we can make a pitch which is, come to us, improve further under Koeman as you did previously, showcase yourself in Europe maybe CL and min 3 years you may well move on to Real Madrid/Barca (or Manchester United). If you go to such a club now, look at Stones, look at Zouma, look at Phil Jones. All promising centre halves who wilted under the pressure. It's about understanding our role.

Walsh's signings are the key for us going forward. As you said financially we cannot keep signing lads who are late 20's as it's not cost effective. Also as a side, we simply will never attract the best lads who are in their prime. We will always get the tier below. We are better serviced buying the best younger players we can, and hoping Koeman can mould them, as he is showing currently. I do acknowledge sometimes the manager needs a stopgap. In the summer we need some immediate remedy, and Schneiderlin could appear to be a deal too good to miss out on, but you can see our transfers shifting and that is no bad thing.

I agree with you entirely on Marguee signing and Kessie. I wouldn't say Koeman fits both Moshiri and Walsh really, but it was more just a point to say players we bring in won't automatically fit into 1 box easily, but they will be the broad and overlapping categories. He is an ideal signing though. You are right to say Spurs specialised in them over the years. Our advantage over them was that we were better at blooding and improving players. Now they've got a manager who does that successfully for the first time in 15 years it has culminated in an improved league performance. It's no surprise.

As for not signing from outside of the leagues I do think this will change. It has too. it's not economically viable to buy from the PL.It's a luxury, and with our place in the food chain one we can't afford. We have bought some experienced heads to stop the rot of last season but I can't see it going on. This is where the role of the youth academy become central, in helping is develop an English core, as opposed to buying one in.

There was also some talk of David Dein coming in, unfortunately that hasn't happened. I hope it does as he was a fantastic closer of deals. I would say this is Walsh's weakness. He identifies well but someone to help him close like Dein would play a big part in moving us forward.

As I've said, I think we will see more signings before TDD but we are probably bidding our time. The emergence of Davies, improvement of DCL and the positivity around Lookman (read Koeman's comments today) and you can see that maybe the necessity isn't as great as maybe it felt 2 months ago. Holgate has also stepped in. Lets not forget we were very close to adding Martina from Southampton. Thank goodness that didn't come off!

I also think the names will be obscure. We have to use trading as a way to help bridge the gap between us and the top 6 teams. We are trying to close that with sponsorship and a new ground, but smart trading will help too. In spite of some of the lazy recycled stereotypes from embittered Southampton fans, it's clear to see Koeman will play and improve young players. Get him 8 or 10 promising lads under 22-23 and if he has 3-4 years with them I think the sky's the limit. That is our challenge now.

Good post but I don't think Walsh has anything to do with negotiating deals, he isn't a money man, that's Elstone and co.

 

[ToffeeTownMilto]

Very average player. Swerve.

Average my cheeks.

 

[hallamblue]

It always goes quiet at this point. Club A want's Club B's player but they won't let him go until they replace him. A offers B £20 million, B offers C £10 million for the guy they want to replace him with but they want £20 milion. That leaves B with no profit so they haggle, and it's a game of brinkmanship until deadline day.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Keep up mate , story's hours old.

I know that, but posters keep posting as if its done. Do keep up !!

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Expecting one incoming next week. One or two more on deadline day or day before.