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Transfer Rumour Jesse Lingard

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efcforever said:
Really hope we don't sign him. Exactly the kind of player we should be avoiding. It would worry me if we have actually offered him a deal.
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We offered JonJoe Kenny a new contract (apparently?!?); I'm surprised our boardroom baffoons haven't offered to make the team kit on his clothing line as part of the deal tbh.
 
BullensRoad said:
If he plays like he did at West Ham, worth it.
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If he played throughout the duration of his contract like that one-off 6 month loan spell a year n half ago, yes.

If he played like the other 11.5 years of his professional career, being a bit-part player, coasting along, getting a few mintues here and there, filling in here and there, then no.
 
Colonel Getafe said:
If he played throughout the duration of his contract like that one-off 6 month loan spell a year n half ago, yes.

If he played like the other 11.5 years of his professional career, being a bit-part player, coasting along, getting a few mintues here and there, filling in here and there, then no.
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No coincidence it was when he was loaned out to another prem team, no?

United have been a circus.
 

BullensRoad said:
No coincidence it was when he was loaned out to another prem team, no?

United have been a circus.
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Not in JL's entire time there they haven't. He's a 29 year old player who has had 1 good six month spell in his entire career, yet never really established himself as a first team regualr let alone a set position. Is that really what we should be basing our transfer plans on. (Plus there's the no-doubt ridiculous wages he's going to want, hence the offering himself to everyone in USA, Saudi Arabia and inbetween). Just another joker wanting a pay day IMO.
 
formerly manx toffee said:
Crikey. Just not true.

Gray should not be in anyones thoughts as starting 11. If he is then we are heading for a long old season
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Demonstrably true.

Take the most recent season:

Lingard: 21 games, 2 goals 1 assist.
Gray: 39 games, 6 goals, 5 assists.

Gray played almost twice as many games as Lingard, but scored three times as many goals and made five times as many assists. Plus he's on a lower wage and he's over three years younger.

Compare their respective Prem league career figures if you like:

Lingard: 165 games, 29 goals, 17 assists.
Gray: 167 games, 15 goals, 15 assists.

Now that does initially make the case for Lingard a bit better... but he's five months away from being 30, and a year removed from his best season. That season included a VERY atypical 16 game stretch on loan to West Ham where he scored 9 goals and made 5 assists. The reason I describe it as atypical? Luckily maths helps explain this.

If you extrapolate that short stretch in order to try to get a rough indication of likely productivity over a longer period, you could use a simple multiplier of ten. 16 games, 9 goals, 5 assists x 10 extrapolates to 160 games, 90 goals and 50 assists. THAT player would be incredible. We'd all take THAT guy. But we also know from our overall knowledge of football that it doesn't work that way. We would, in fact, be very happy with someone who racked up 40 goals and 30 assists in 160 games... but Lingard actually HAS career figures to look at: 165 games, 29 goals 17 assists. Not so impressive.

Now remove the West Ham loan, and what do you see? 149 games, 20 goals, 12 assists. THAT'S what Jesse Lingard extrapolates to: maybe 5 goals and 4 assists in a prem season IF he plays 38 games. The West ham loan was an abnormal statistical outlier. He'll never recreate that level of productivity, it's miles out of kilter with his career norms.

Gray is currently better. We already have Gray, and he's on a normal wage. And he just had his best domestic season ever.

Lingard is older, worse, and wants to earn at least £30k p/w MORE than our current highest-paid players.

When the dust is settled and both of them are retired, Gray will have the better career stats. Because he's currently hitting the best form of his career and he's 26, whereas Lingard's stats show he peaked fifteen months ago and he's about to turn 30.

Gray may not be good enough for what we want for our club. But he's better than Jesse Lingard by some margin.
 

Tree13 said:
Demonstrably true.

Take the most recent season:

Lingard: 21 games, 2 goals 1 assist.
Gray: 39 games, 6 goals, 5 assists.

Gray played almost twice as many games as Lingard, but scored three times as many goals and made five times as many assists. Plus he's on a lower wage and he's over three years younger.

Compare their respective Prem league career figures if you like:

Lingard: 165 games, 29 goals, 17 assists.
Gray: 167 games, 15 goals, 15 assists.

Now that does initially make the case for Lingard a bit better... but he's five months away from being 30, and a year removed from his best season. That season included a VERY atypical 16 game stretch on loan to West Ham where he scored 9 goals and made 5 assists. The reason I describe it as atypical? Luckily maths helps explain this.

If you extrapolate that short stretch in order to try to get a rough indication of likely productivity over a longer period, you could use a simple multiplier of ten. 16 games, 9 goals, 5 assists x 10 extrapolates to 160 games, 90 goals and 50 assists. THAT player would be incredible. We'd all take THAT guy. But we also know from our overall knowledge of football that it doesn't work that way. We would, in fact, be very happy with someone who racked up 40 goals and 30 assists in 160 games... but Lingard actually HAS career figures to look at: 165 games, 29 goals 17 assists. Not so impressive.

Now remove the West Ham loan, and what do you see? 149 games, 20 goals, 12 assists. THAT'S what Jesse Lingard extrapolates to: maybe 5 goals and 4 assists in a prem season IF he plays 38 games. The West ham loan was an abnormal statistical outlier. He'll never recreate that level of productivity, it's miles out of kilter with his career norms.

Gray is currently better. We already have Gray, and he's on a normal wage. And he just had his best domestic season ever.

Lingard is older, worse, and wants to earn at least £30k p/w MORE than our current highest-paid players.

When the dust is settled and both of them are retired, Gray will have the better career stats. Because he's currently hitting the best form of his career and he's 26, whereas Lingard's stats show he peaked fifteen months ago and he's about to turn 30.

Gray may not be good enough for what we want for our club. But he's better than Jesse Lingard by some margin.
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We agree about neither being the right quality, perhaps we should leave it at that ….
 
Colonel Getafe said:
Not in JL's entire time there they haven't. He's a 29 year old player who has had 1 good six month spell in his entire career, yet never really established himself as a first team regualr let alone a set position. Is that really what we should be basing our transfer plans on. (Plus there's the no-doubt ridiculous wages he's going to want, hence the offering himself to everyone in USA, Saudi Arabia and inbetween). Just another joker wanting a pay day IMO.
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I'm giving Franck and Thelwell the benefit of the doubt for now (still hopeful on Dele) but I can understand skepticism.
 
BullensRoad said:
I'm giving Franck and Thelwell the benefit of the doubt for now (still hopeful on Dele) but I can understand skepticism.
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A fair take I suppose.

Personally I'm very far from convinced by KT (and Lamps to some degree), but let's wait til transfer window closes to judge that one.

As for JL: 29 year old "celebrities" who occassionally pretend to be footballers looking for a payday is not who we should be going after IMO. As for Dele: huge season for him. Either he kickstarts his career and gets back to something like the early Spurs days, or we're stuck with another waster on probably top end wages for a few years.
 

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