John Stones

[CahillsCornerFlag]

You'll miss him when he's gone,mate.

I'd honestly hate to see him go. But I think realistically, the position he plays, we can replace him with a far less silky but more than likely superior in the air defender. What's more we'd have tons left to spend elsewhere.

 

[Darth Vader]

He a defender

Getting rid and moving the ball away from danger should be your first priority

 

[bring the ghost on]

Nothing like to the same extent though from other players. Last season, particularly in the first few months, we had the boring side to side stuff from Jags and Distin but that was largely unpressed by the oppo forwards and when it was it went back to Howard who then hoofed it anyway.

RM might have set the template and the culture regarding passing out from the back, but Stones is the one calling the tune here, deciding the extent that he goes to when applying the style and opting for the self-promotion stuff.

Agreed that it isn't to the same extent, because Stones footballing style is more closely aligned to Martinez's philosophy. However, I think a 21 year old lad needs to be taught which aspects of his game need to be toned down and the only way he will learn is by having a good manager and coaching staff bollocking him and drilling the pretentious footballing tendencies out of him. Martinez, though, will applaud his unnecessary risk taking. He needs to be told that to achieve greatness, quality defending should be first priority.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Being or becoming a great footballer does not automatically mean being or becoming a great defender. Class, composure, grace are all god's gifts, while defending is a footballing art that has to be learnt, concentration, application, taking a whack or two and avoiding risk are everything. The prime responsibility of any defender is to stop the opposition from scoring.

 

[kenada_blue]

Are you kidding me? How often do we hoof the ball upfield? Jags probably more so than others (old habits), but anyone watching our team can see that the players are instructed to retain the ball and pass out of defence. It's obvious.

My point is, this suits Stones' game, but he needs to learn when it is inappropriate. Martinez isn't teaching him that.

On the money.

Martinez will be urging Stones to do what he's doing, and I'm sure he's carrying out the instructions to a tee because he can - he's got the tools to.

Don't forget, last season we only started tonking it up to Rom because he told them to.

 

[kenada_blue]

Being or becoming a great footballer does not automatically mean being or becoming a great defender. Class, composure, grace are all god's gifts, while defending is a footballing art that has to be learnt, concentration, application, taking a whack or two and avoiding risk are everything. The prime responsibility of any defender is to stop the opposition from scoring.

So when he moves in the summer, you hope a manager (Mourinho?) will teach him how to defend better.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Agreed that it isn't to the same extent, because Stones footballing style is more closely aligned to Martinez's philosophy. However, I think a 21 year old lad needs to be taught which aspects of his game need to be toned down and the only way he will learn is by having a good manager and coaching staff bollocking him and drilling the pretentious footballing tendencies out of him. Martinez, though, will applaud his unnecessary risk taking. He needs to be told that to achieve greatness, quality defending should be first priority.

I do shudder at what work our defensive coaches are doing with him, or others for that matter.

A different type of manager is an interesting point. A transfer for Stones might confirm to him that he has been right all along to play the way he has been and he would probably expect to be allowed to keep doing the same thing at the next club. I wonder what would happen if Stones came across a tougher boss who was more defensively minded and expected some more safety first defending. The grass might not always be greener.

Or maybe it would be the other way round, Stones would have the big club move and would no longer have to be playing in such a self-promoting manner to grab attention and might be more minded to knuckle down?

 

[ToffeeDoug]

So when he moves in the summer, you hope a manager (Mourinho?) will teach him how to defend better.

I'm not sure it is about teaching as such, Stones has played plenty enough football already to know exactly what he should be doing but doesn't always opt to do so. He is choosing not to. A stronger manager might have to work hard to convince Stones to moderate the over-playing stuff, not sure it would be teaching though.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Give the lad a rest for a week or two. Let him settle his head. Just a brief loss of form.

 

[bring the ghost on]

I wonder what would happen if Stones came across a tougher boss who was more defensively minded and expected some more safety first defending. The grass might not always be greener.

But if he got the taste of winning trophies, playing in Europe or challenging for titles, he may be learn to accept that it is a necessary (if unexciting) step to take the more pragmatic/professional approach to football, similar to Wayne Rooney at Man Utd.

 

[ToffeeTim]

But if he got the taste of winning trophies, playing in Europe or challenging for titles, he may be learn to accept that it is a necessary (if unexciting) step to take the more pragmatic/professional approach to football, similar to Wayne Rooney at Man Utd.

He needs a better manager for his development defensively. It's quite simple.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Give the lad a rest for a week or two. Let him settle his head. Just a brief loss of form.

If Roberto is giving him the freedom to play the way he does (or maybe Stones is saying to RM if you want me to stay at the club then this is how I will play so lump it) it is going to be a tough call for RM to put him on the bench for the next two games.

Not sure it is a loss of form as such because he is playing the way he wants to and opposition players are getting smart to pressurising him because they know he is unlikely to hoof it and could play other team mates into danger as a result. A loss of form for me is something more like playing someone onside through a lack of concentration, missing a key tackle or header, leaving a player unmarked etc.

 

[ToffeeTim]

If Roberto is giving him the freedom to play the way he does (or maybe Stones is saying to RM if you want me to stay at the club then this is how I will play so lump it) it is going to be a tough call for RM to put him on the bench for the next two games.

Not sure it is a loss of form as such because he is playing the way he wants to and opposition players are getting smart to pressurising him because they know he is unlikely to hoof it and could play other team mates into danger as a result. A loss of form for me is something more like playing someone onside through a lack of concentration, missing a key tackle or header, leaving a player unmarked etc.

I think it's confidence. Stones has the ability to play out of the difficult spots. Just seems down on himself and a break will help I feel

 

[ToffeeDoug]

But if he got the taste of winning trophies, playing in Europe or challenging for titles, he may be learn to accept that it is a necessary (if unexciting) step to take the more pragmatic/professional approach to football, similar to Wayne Rooney at Man Utd.

Which was the second point I made when looking at the either/or outcomes, Stones having secured the move wouldn't need to prove anything any more to potential suitors and could become more pragmatic and achieve everything that he wanted.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

He needs a better manager for his development defensively. It's quite simple.

Indeed, a manager who understands the importance of good defending and is strong enough to enforce his will. Backed up by his coaches.