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2018/19 Jordan Pickford

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mkrudden said:
Quite a few questions for you here mate...

So its okey to blame every other player than the one whos single role in the team is stoping balls from getting in the net, when a ball goes in the net?

So what is the role of a CB and how does it differ to a GK mate? Or any defender for that matter? And what about holding midfielders like Kante? Tackling is literally a method of goal prevention.

How in the world is a keeper letting in I dont even know how many goals since joining us not to blame,

This seems quite black and white. What about the shades of grey? That he has been responsible for some goals but our mistakes last season with the ball, off the ball, as a collective unit were also to blame.

To be really basic about this, the goal is massive. So if an attacker is getting a free shot off under no pressure, then it's difficult for any keeper to save it. It doesn't matter if that's De Gea, Lloris, Buffon etc. So the art of defending is ensuring free shots are kept to a minimum and from that point, how many saves can your keeper mate.

So i'd ask you to take a look at the goals we conceded last year. How many were free shots? How many of those did he save? Then look at how many your eyes tell you weren't free shots or were shots poorly executed that he should have saved.

Goals conceded isn't the metric to use in isolation for a goalkeeper. If it was, why did West Ham buy Fabianksi? Why did Burnley, who finished above us last season, buy Joe Hart? Why did Wolves buy Rui Patricio when their keeper had such an excellent season the year before?

He isnt what a lot of our fans want him to be, and unless he improves dramatically, he never will.

I'd be interested to know what exactly you believe our fans want him to be? And, given the above about properly and contextually assessing a goalkeeper, what he needs to improve dramatically on that games and experience won't provide? Look at De Gea in his first couple of seasons at Utd- did anyone then believe he would become the best keeper in the world? What makes him the best keeper? Because in the WC his shot / save ratio was horrendous.

Jordan is fairly average, with a good save in him here and there, but thats about it.

Even if that is true, which i don't believe it is, aren't we as a team pretty average? So he certainly fits a team in 10th place this season and 8th last season?

If you've got time, in order to contextualise what you mean by average, could you let us know whether you think the following keepers are better or worse than our Jord'?

Ederson
Kepa
Allison
Cech
Lloris
Begovic
Patricio
De Gea
Foster
Schmeichel
Hart
Ryan
Hennessey
Fabianski
McCarthy
Bertinelli
Hamer
Dubravka
Etheridge
Click to expand...
Not a bad post mate, Ill hive my thoughs on it when Im off work!
 

mkrudden said:
Quite a few questions for you here mate...
1. So what is the role of a CB and how does it differ to a GK mate? Or any defender for that matter? And what about holding midfielders like Kante? Tackling is literally a method of goal prevention.

2. This seems quite black and white. What about the shades of grey? That he has been responsible for some goals but our mistakes last season with the ball, off the ball, as a collective unit were also to blame.

To be really basic about this, the goal is massive. So if an attacker is getting a free shot off under no pressure, then it's difficult for any keeper to save it. It doesn't matter if that's De Gea, Lloris, Buffon etc. So the art of defending is ensuring free shots are kept to a minimum and from that point, how many saves can your keeper mate.

So i'd ask you to take a look at the goals we conceded last year. How many were free shots? How many of those did he save? Then look at how many your eyes tell you weren't free shots or were shots poorly executed that he should have saved.

Goals conceded isn't the metric to use in isolation for a goalkeeper. If it was, why did West Ham buy Fabianksi? Why did Burnley, who finished above us last season, buy Joe Hart? Why did Wolves buy Rui Patricio when their keeper had such an excellent season the year before?


3. I'd be interested to know what exactly you believe our fans want him to be? And, given the above about properly and contextually assessing a goalkeeper, what he needs to improve dramatically on that games and experience won't provide? Look at De Gea in his first couple of seasons at Utd- did anyone then believe he would become the best keeper in the world? What makes him the best keeper? Because in the WC his shot / save ratio was horrendous.


4. Even if that is true, which i don't believe it is, aren't we as a team pretty average? So he certainly fits a team in 10th place this season and 8th last season?

If you've got time, in order to contextualise what you mean by average, could you let us know whether you think the following keepers are better or worse than our Jord'?

Ederson
Kepa
Allison
Cech
Lloris
Begovic
Patricio
De Gea
Foster
Schmeichel
Hart
Ryan
Hennessey
Fabianski
McCarthy
Bertinelli
Hamer
Dubravka
Etheridge
Click to expand...
Here goes;
1. A CBs role is more than just stopping goals, they also play a support role for the midfield and (in some roles) starts attacking moves from the back. You can say, to a point, that a keeper does the same, but in my opinion, its not the keepers job to start attacks, its just a plus if he does. A keepers only job is to prevent the ball from hitting the net, and starting play without giving it away to the oposition. Kante's role obviously consists of more than stopping goals, which is where they differ ;)

2. Its was a total black and white-statement, and we both know Pickford isnt responsible for all the goals we let in since he joined us, but my point still stands. Other keepers also have to deal with bad defending in front of them, yet they have better clean sheet ratios. I know its unfair to compare him to himself at Sunderland, as he was a younger player then, but he let in howlers for them too. I remember us playing them before we brought him, and we scored a couple of easy goals that day, if I recall correctly. My point wasnt that Pickford is responsible for all those goals, it was a way to point out how unresonable it is to claim him as one of the best in the world, and then blame everyone else if things go bad. At times its the CBs fault, at times its the FBs but at times its Pickford too, yet he get a free pass because he's Englands nr 1(Didnt you see those saves during the WC!?!!).

3. Some of our fans claim him to be world class and one of the best keepers in the world. I guess thats what they want him to be, but Ive not seen anything to prove he's there already.
Im not a coach and wont claim I know how to improve him, but Ill make an example from last season. I dont remember who we played, but we got hit on the counter and it ended in a 1 v 1 with Pickford. Insted of pushing the attacker, he just stood on his line and let him score without really doing anything. Then, a couple of games later, we got hit on the counter again, basicly same situation. This time, Jordan reacted instantly, ran out and cleared the ball. It was obvious that Allardyce and his coaches had drilled him since that previous game, and I dont remember him making a blunder like that leading to goal since. Thats him improving a part of his game I think any first team keeper in the prem need to have on point, and I honestly rate him higher now than i did before I saw that improvement. I think little composure things like that would help a lot. It might come with age, but until its drilled, we should get a similar or better quality keeper he can compeate with. It would for sure be healthy for the whole squad, and it would put less pressure on Pickford.

4. I dont think we are an average team, I think we have a good squad. There are highs and lows in our team, but we do have some really good players.

Im running a little short of time here, so nr 4 and better/worse than Pickford list is going to be limited. I dont have time to proofread this either. :--(

Better than Pickford(not ranked):
Ederson
Kepa
Cech
Lloris
Patricio
De Gea

Worse:
Begovic
Schmeichel
Hart
McCarthy

Unsure:
All the others you mentioned.
 
Nyhus said:
Here goes;
1. A CBs role is more than just stopping goals, they also play a support role for the midfield and (in some roles) starts attacking moves from the back. You can say, to a point, that a keeper does the same, but in my opinion, its not the keepers job to start attacks, its just a plus if he does. A keepers only job is to prevent the ball from hitting the net, and starting play without giving it away to the oposition. Kante's role obviously consists of more than stopping goals, which is where they differ ;)

2. Its was a total black and white-statement, and we both know Pickford isnt responsible for all the goals we let in since he joined us, but my point still stands. Other keepers also have to deal with bad defending in front of them, yet they have better clean sheet ratios. I know its unfair to compare him to himself at Sunderland, as he was a younger player then, but he let in howlers for them too. I remember us playing them before we brought him, and we scored a couple of easy goals that day, if I recall correctly. My point wasnt that Pickford is responsible for all those goals, it was a way to point out how unresonable it is to claim him as one of the best in the world, and then blame everyone else if things go bad. At times its the CBs fault, at times its the FBs but at times its Pickford too, yet he get a free pass because he's Englands nr 1(Didnt you see those saves during the WC!?!!).

3. Some of our fans claim him to be world class and one of the best keepers in the world. I guess thats what they want him to be, but Ive not seen anything to prove he's there already.
Im not a coach and wont claim I know how to improve him, but Ill make an example from last season. I dont remember who we played, but we got hit on the counter and it ended in a 1 v 1 with Pickford. Insted of pushing the attacker, he just stood on his line and let him score without really doing anything. Then, a couple of games later, we got hit on the counter again, basicly same situation. This time, Jordan reacted instantly, ran out and cleared the ball. It was obvious that Allardyce and his coaches had drilled him since that previous game, and I dont remember him making a blunder like that leading to goal since. Thats him improving a part of his game I think any first team keeper in the prem need to have on point, and I honestly rate him higher now than i did before I saw that improvement. I think little composure things like that would help a lot. It might come with age, but until its drilled, we should get a similar or better quality keeper he can compeate with. It would for sure be healthy for the whole squad, and it would put less pressure on Pickford.

4. I dont think we are an average team, I think we have a good squad. There are highs and lows in our team, but we do have some really good players.

Im running a little short of time here, so nr 4 and better/worse than Pickford list is going to be limited. I dont have time to proofread this either. :--(

Better than Pickford(not ranked):
Ederson
Kepa
Cech
Lloris
Patricio
De Gea

Worse:
Begovic
Schmeichel
Hart
McCarthy

Unsure:
All the others you mentioned.
Click to expand...
All fair this. The one on one example you mention was against Burnley I think where he was rooted.

I actually think you and I are very similar on this on that we both agree he isn't world class. He definitely isn't. I think he has the attributes and potential to be but plenty have never realised such potential.

Cheers for responding in full, always makes for interesting discussion and debate.
 
McBain said:
:coffee:

Q6z1Lv6.jpg
Click to expand...

That’s after he has touched it into the corner . Look at the view behind the goal. Mcmanaman even says I’m the comentary “ it’s not even I’m the corner, he should be saving that”
 

ijjysmith said:
I’m not sure on these you know. They all make a similar amount of mistakes.
Click to expand...

De Gea is better, he's best all round goalie in the world and wins United so many points.

Lloris isn't, used to be world class but his best days are gone now. Will be replaced soon.

Ederson is debatable, rate that lad lots but he has better defenders protecting him.

Cech has been crap for about 4 seasons, looks every bit his age and is too immobile.

Kepa is doesn't look anything special at all, he may yet develop but right now looks out of his depth.


Patricio is a good keeper like but he's not on Jordan's level, no top club wants him as their 1st choice.
 
EFCPaul said:
De Gea is better, he's best all round goalie in the world and wins United so many points.

Lloris isn't, used to be world class but his best days are gone now. Will be replaced soon.

Ederson is debatable, rate that lad lots but he has better defenders protecting him.

Cech has been crap for about 4 seasons, looks every bit his age and is too immobile.

Kepa is doesn't look anything special at all, he may yet develop but right now looks out of his depth.


Patricio is a good keeper like but he's not on Jordan's level, no top club wants him as their 1st choice.
Click to expand...
My view lines up with this pretty well. I'd probably still rather have Lloris today but I agree that he seems to be losing it a bit. I'd say Ederson and Allison are probably about the same level and it really is just who is having the better day. De Gea is the only one who is clearly a level above Pickford for me.
 

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