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2020/21 Jordan Pickford

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Yiu cant defend his time here overall and so resort to sophistry.

I understand.

It's not my fault if you think logic is sophistry, Dave.

We both believe what we can observe. All I'm saying is that we can agree upon the basis of observation that past behavior is the best predictor of future performance, but that sometimes that just isn't true. The existence proof is enough to demonstrate otherwise.

I'm not trying to defend his time here overall. I'm arguing that he may, in fact, have become a good goalkeeper by sorting his head out, and that recent evidence supports that contention.

I'm also saying that the only way to know for sure is to wait for more evidence. You may be right that he will revert to type. I may be right that he is now, in fact, a good goalkeeper.
 
Buit Im judging him on ALL the 5 year period he's been here (bang average to appalling) not the good last 6 months of last season.
He'll have terrible form for Everton again. You know it. Why dny it when you have 5 years worth of evidence to draw on?

Get shut ASAP for big money. Cash in NOW.
When looking to sign a player, would you judge them on the last 5 years, or the last 6 months?! Pickford has matured, improved and sorted out his head. Why not look at his recent form? Nobody will pay a huge fee for him. It doesn’t make sense at all to sell one of our best players for less than a stupid amount!
 
Well, the first fact you've got wrong is that he's been here 4 years, not 5.

A second fact is that in 2 of those 4 years he got player of the season on here, a fact you conveniently seem to have forgotten.

In my opinion, his form started to dip following the howler at Anfield with the Origi goal, and became gradually worse over the next 24 months. Over that period the number and frequency of mistakes increased at the same time the good parts of his game were being eroded, culminating in his form during the early part of last season when he had become a liability to the team. But your making out that he's been playing to those very poor standards throughout his "5" year term here, which is not, in fact, a fact, but merely pure drivel.

Here's a couple of my post from the feeding frenzy period last Autumn.





There were a small number of posters on here regularly defending Jordan during this period, and I regret that I wasn't one of them. But at the same time I didn't join in the frenzy because I genuinely believed a good keeper was still in there, it was just his head that was wrong and needed sorting out. I'm glad to say that, for a change, I was proved right. the club brought in a specialist and Jordan returned after his short "injury break" a completely different player. I think the Anfield derby, in which he was excellent, also killed off a few demons.

So the third fact I'll present to you Dave is that for the majority of this calendar year he's been one of the best keepers in the Premier and he's carried that form into the Euro's where he compared favourably with some of the best keepers in the world.

The key to Jordan going forward is keeping his head straight, and if we can do that there's no reason why he can't be our number 1 keeper for years to come.
I've no idea what metric you're using to claim he's one of the best GKs in the PL last season.

His form now: you could predict he'd have a good tournament for England. He's a GK who needs to focus and an international stage hands him that motivation.

His form in the PL last season was acceptable. His performance overall for Everton has been a generous 4/120 for the time he's been here.

He's a bad bet for Everton; a good bet for any team involved in high profile games week in and week out.

Sell.
 
When looking to sign a player, would you judge them on the last 5 years, or the last 6 months?! Pickford has matured, improved and sorted out his head. Why not look at his recent form? Nobody will pay a huge fee for him. It doesn’t make sense at all to sell one of our best players for less than a stupid amount!
Last 5 years. Of course.

Form is temporary.
 

It's not my fault if you think logic is sophistry, Dave.

We both believe what we can observe. All I'm saying is that we can agree upon the basis of observation that past behavior is the best predictor of future performance, but that sometimes that just isn't true. The existence proof is enough to demonstrate otherwise.

I'm not trying to defend his time here overall. I'm arguing that he may, in fact, have become a good goalkeeper by sorting his head out, and that recent evidence supports that contention.

I'm also saying that the only way to know for sure is to wait for more evidence. You may be right that he will revert to type. I may be right that he is now, in fact, a good goalkeeper.
He may have. But if a high enough bid comes in we should sell, because we cant afford the luxury of waiting to find out whether he's turned into a decent and consistent GK or will just revert to what we've seen the majority of time...and we need cash in to spend on outfield players.
 
I've no idea what metric you're using to claim he's one of the best GKs in the PL last season.

His form now: you could predict he'd have a good tournament for England. He's a GK who needs to focus and an international stage hands him that motivation.

His form in the PL last season was acceptable. His performance overall for Everton has been a generous 4/120 for the time he's been here.

He's a bad bet for Everton; a good bet for any team involved in high profile games week in and week out.

Sell.
Since when has "this calendar year" equalled last season?

For somebody who, throughout this competition has been predicting before each game that Pickford would lose it, that's quite a remarkable statement to make.

His form last season in the premier league was far from acceptable. He was deplorable in the first half, but very very good in the second half after the club had employed a specialist sports psychologist to sort his head out. It was literally like watching 2 different keepers, 2 different people even.

He's not a bad bet for Everton if we can keep his head right. He's an excellent keeper and will likely get better.
 
Since when has "this calendar year" equalled last season?

For somebody who, throughout this competition has been predicting before each game that Pickford would lose it, that's quite a remarkable statement to make.

His form last season in the premier league was far from acceptable. He was deplorable in the first half, but very very good in the second half after the club had employed a specialist sports psychologist to sort his head out. It was literally like watching 2 different keepers, 2 different people even.

He's not a bad bet for Everton if we can keep his head right. He's an excellent keeper and will likely get better.
Maybe. Maybe not. And given that we need to sell this summer, he'd be first out the door with a big price on him as far as I'm concerned.
 
Maybe. Maybe not. And given that we need to sell this summer, he'd be first out the door with a big price on him as far as I'm concerned.
Do we need to sell one of our better players to raise funds though?. I'm not too sure tbh. There are plenty of fringe players that we can raise funds on. Not mega funds admittedly, but together they will add up. The likes of Kean, Kenny, Holgate, Davies, Gomes, Gibson, Bernard, Iwobi, and if we're looking at bringing in another defender, Michael Keane or Mina.

Plus keeper is probably the hardest position on the pitch to fill. If we did sell, I've seen our post on who we'd replace him with and I'm not convinced tbh.
 

It's not my fault if you think logic is sophistry, Dave.

We both believe what we can observe. All I'm saying is that we can agree upon the basis of observation that past behavior is the best predictor of future performance, but that sometimes that just isn't true. The existence proof is enough to demonstrate otherwise.

I'm not trying to defend his time here overall. I'm arguing that he may, in fact, have become a good goalkeeper by sorting his head out, and that recent evidence supports that contention.

I'm also saying that the only way to know for sure is to wait for more evidence.
You may be right that he will revert to type. I may be right that he is now, in fact, a good goalkeeper.
I do not think we disagree very much, but my point is that it is not unlike Pickford to have good periods, which are often followed by some completely hopeless periods. It is actually very characteristic of Pickford. So far, I have my doubts, but if he can perform at this level next season, I must of course reconsider my position.

So I agree we have to wait, but so far there has been no evidence to disprove my position. What we see now is really just normal, fluctuation within an interval, but if he manages to stabilize his performance at a high level, then I would say there has been a significant change.
 


In the pantheon of garbage takes, this could have it's own hall.

"Just don't move" cheers for that one Rory mate. Can't believe it's that easy, why didn't the 34 out of 39 goalkeepers who've conceded a penalty to Jorginho do just that?

Perfectly illustrative of much of the media’s ‘agenda ‘ Against the lad . I’ve no problem for calling him out for mistakes and he’s definitely made a few but that is a ridiculous take .
 


In the pantheon of garbage takes, this could have it's own hall.

"Just don't move" cheers for that one Rory mate. Can't believe it's that easy, why didn't the 34 out of 39 goalkeepers who've conceded a penalty to Jorginho do just that?

It’s not that simple, but some keepers do still move early even though they know it’s coming. Simon for instance tipped his hand. Pickford played it perfectly.
 
Last 5 years. Of course.

Form is temporary.
Surely many goalkeepers become better players as they get older and gain more experience. I’d be looking no further back than a few months or a year tops. Going back 5 years could be very misleading. But in the case of Sandro, would have been a good idea. One good season at Malaga shouldn’t have been enough to sign a striker, who couldn’t score many for Barcelona!
 

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