2022/23 Jordan Pickford

[Saint Domingo]

On a purely financial level,if he has a good World Cup that would be the time to sell at peak value.

If he doesn’t want to leave, we shouldn’t sell. It’s difficult to get a good goalkeeper. We could end up paying a big fee to get a proven one who isn’t even as good as Pickford, or we take a punt on an up and coming keeper which has no guarantees. Pickford may want CL football but we shouldn’t be selling him just for the profit if he doesn’t want to go.

 

[Drico]

I still think Clemence is a much better goalkeeper than Pickford, I remember him for a lot more than the Dalglish clanger, commanded his goal area much better, one of the reasons Pickford will always lag behind really great keepers, although he can still learn that.

Clemence was a great goalkeeper - his overall career and trophy haul is testament to that. However, his England career was very patchy indeed. He made his own fair share of blunders, and was, often, unfairly blamed for other goals by sections of the press. Pickford's England career has so far been, objectively, more successful than Clemence's.

I suspect Clemence would have been a better England goalkeeper if he'd had full trust from the management - rather than the ludicrous in-and-out rotation that Ron Greenwood tended to employ with Peter Shilton. Neither of those goalkeepers ever got comfortable with being the undisputed number one until Shilton was given the nod in 1982 - already, arguably, just past his absolute peak.

Anyway, for Pickford to get proper credit for his England excellence, he needs to change his name by deed-poll to "Trent Alexander-Pickford".

 

[Cameron Manning]

You're overrating Clemence a bit, like most posters of a certain vintage who act like 'now dead' players had more all-round ability- when most definitely didn't. Clemence was most notably an athletic shot-stopper, not dissimilar to a Pickford or a De Gea, not a strong, commanding keeper in the mould of, say, Pat Jennings (but more spectacular than Pat). While I respect Clemence's club record, there's really no debate who will go down as the better England keeper- and that's Pickford, and no solid evidence to suggest otherwise, other than misty-eyed "they were all better when I was a kid" nonsense.

“ Really no debate who will go down as the better England keeper- and that’s Pickford, well I think you are absolutely correct there,as long as the debate is just Evertonians debating it. Definitely nothing to do with misty eyed “ they were all better when I was a kid nonsense, nor am I overrating Clemence, far from it, he was a great goalkeeper and most fans will give due praise, especially the neutral ones.

 

[Stevie Nicks Bootleg]

“ Really no debate who will go down as the better England keeper- and that’s Pickford, well I think you are absolutely correct there,as long as the debate is just Evertonians debating it. Definitely nothing to do with misty eyed “ they were all better when I was a kid nonsense, nor am I overrating Clemence, far from it, he was a great goalkeeper and most fans will give due praise, especially the neutral ones.

Nothing to do with Evertonians, I'm not debating their club records, as i have made that clear, i'm saying you're overrating Clemence as 'England' goalkeeper- and picking holes in Jordan's England career, despite it being excellent (so far). Your previous posts sum-up your bias against Pickford, especially post #694, when it's obvious you'll just do anything not to give him due credit and build your own parameters for this.

 

[Chrismac]

Cant remember too many England keepers being spoke of as their main player when taking the team to World Cup semis then Euro finals back to back.
Criticise Pickfords consistency at club level pre 2021 all you like but he's never put a foot wrong at a major tournament for England. More than that he has been their most reliable player.

 

[Stevie Nicks Bootleg]

Cant remember too many England keepers being spoke of as their main player when taking the team to World Cup semis then Euro finals back to back.
Criticise Pickfords consistency at club level pre 2021 all you like but he's never put a foot wrong at a major tournament for England. More than that he has been their most reliable player.

That's the thing, one of my mate's who i sit with at the game, has only just started to give Jordan credit, his complaint was always "he's far better for England than Everton". I disagreed it was as wide a margin as he claimed but there was a time when I could see where he was coming from (maybe around the time you suggest). Not any more though.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Cant remember too many England keepers being spoke of as their main player when taking the team to World Cup semis then Euro finals back to back.
Criticise Pickfords consistency at club level pre 2021 all you like but he's never put a foot wrong at a major tournament for England. More than that he has been their most reliable player.

He’s had one period of sustained poor form for us between the Origi derby and Carlo bringing in Olsen. In that period he was dropping balls quite a bit and generally just looked short of confidence and shaky.

Outside of that though he’s been very good for us. He was solid when he arrived, had his dip in form, but for getting on two years now he’s been pretty much exceptional. Fortunately for England the tournaments have arrived when he’s been in his best form and hopefully this one will go the same.

 

[Parker]

He’s had one period of sustained poor form for us between the Origi derby and Carlo bringing in Olsen. In that period he was dropping balls quite a bit and generally just looked short of confidence and shaky.

Outside of that though he’s been very good for us. He was solid when he arrived, had his dip in form, but for getting on two years now he’s been pretty much exceptional. Fortunately for England the tournaments have arrived when he’s been in his best form and hopefully this one will go the same.

You also can't forget the level up he seemed to achieve with the arrival of the slicked back barnet.

 

[davids]

If he doesn’t want to leave, we shouldn’t sell. It’s difficult to get a good goalkeeper. We could end up paying a big fee to get a proven one who isn’t even as good as Pickford, or we take a punt on an up and coming keeper which has no guarantees. Pickford may want CL football but we shouldn’t be selling him just for the profit if he doesn’t want to go.

I'm not advocating selling,as you say finding another would be difficult at the level we shop and finding an up and coming keeper is risky. But as with Richarlison it might be taken out of our hands by FFP rules, so after a decent WC would be the time to cash in.

 

[Cameron Manning]

Nothing to do with Evertonians, I'm not debating their club records, as i have made that clear, i'm saying you're overrating Clemence as 'England' goalkeeper- and picking holes in Jordan's England career, despite it being excellent (so far). Your previous posts sum-up your bias against Pickford, especially post #694, when it's obvious you'll just do anything not to give him due credit and build your own parameters for this.

.I’d say it’s got quite a lot to do with Everton fans in this debate, as for Pickford he’s had plenty of praise off me,especially for his performances at the end of last season when he helped to keep Everton up along with a few more in the team, I don’t see where I have picked holes in Pickford’s England career, I see his faults and mention them, you must have seen the same faults yourself surely.

 

[Stevie Nicks Bootleg]

I don’t see where I have picked holes in Pickford’s England career

You basically dismissed his two excellent tournaments, as you claim they didn't beat any 'top' teams and lost to the 'good ones', so you'll have to tell me what you regard as the criteria for a 'top team' (also, they drew with Italy and lost on pens, another game where he was many people's MOTM, not sure that can really go against him...then again, i'm sure it does for you ).

Your comments are a bit like being critical of Southall's legendary save from Varadi in 1985 or those multiple great saves he had vs Coventry in 1988, on the premise that "it wasn't really against top teams".

 

[Cameron Manning]

You basically dismissed his two excellent tournaments, as you claim they didn't beat any 'top' teams and lost to the 'good ones', so you'll have to tell me what you regard as the criteria for a 'top team' (also, they drew with Italy and lost on pens, another game where he was many people's MOTM, not sure that can really go against him...then again, i'm sure it does for you ).

Your comments are a bit like being critical of Southall's legendary save from Varadi in 1985 or those multiple great saves he had vs Coventry in 1988, on the premise that "it wasn't really against top teams".

I dismiss all of England‘s “ achievements” they had an easy passage through both tournaments doubt if I even watched some of those games, two excellent tournaments, come on Stevie!!
As for Southall,well now you are talking, a world class keeper, really world class, he made saves against the very best, some of the best, the best of the rest, the mediocre and the crap teams, commanded his area any way he could, he was as good as any keeper in the world and better than most of them,I could never be critical of him because I never expected him to make a mistake and he very rarely did.

 

[Stevie Nicks Bootleg]

I dismiss all of England‘s “ achievements” they had an easy passage through both tournaments doubt if I even watched some of those games, two excellent tournaments, come on Stevie!!
As for Southall,well now you are talking, a world class keeper, really world class, he made saves against the very best, some of the best, the best of the rest, the mediocre and the crap teams, commanded his area any way he could, he was as good as any keeper in the world and better than most of them,I could never be critical of him because I never expected him to make a mistake and he very rarely did.

He did and you're right you didn't watch those games by the sounds of it. Your opinion on Pickford's England performances is becoming more laughable each post, to be honest.

Nev made mistakes, like every goalie, he's always saying the same himself. In fact, he made a fair few clangers in the year he was FWA Footballer of the Year too (notably, Norwich away, Ipswich at home- his performance in the first leg vs Bayern wasn't great either, he flapped at two straight-forward crosses, presenting Bayern with 2 chances, one a golden opportunity- and we were a tad lucky to come back to Goodison at 0-0). But my point was, you'd never see those saves I mentioned as not being excellent, but it appears if Pickford made them, you'd dismiss them as "not being against top teams", like you have done.

 

[TheBigIguana]

The agenda against him in some quarters is genuinely quite weird. I've criticised him plenty in the past but he's been consistently excellent for getting on for 2 years now. He's a good keeper and the best in England by quite some margin.

He wasn't good under Rafael

 

[TheBigIguana]

If he doesn’t want to leave, we shouldn’t sell. It’s difficult to get a good goalkeeper. We could end up paying a big fee to get a proven one who isn’t even as good as Pickford, or we take a punt on an up and coming keeper which has no guarantees. Pickford may want CL football but we shouldn’t be selling him just for the profit if he doesn’t want to go.

It honestly isn't. I mean we've done it so that pretty much tells you how easy it is.