Leighton Baines - next Everton manager (but one)?

[davek]

Everything is bait from Dave
Find a contentious idea and push it
Haven’t you worked that out yet ?
Proper Adrian Durham

Or you could just respond to a very reasonable and plausible scenario.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

lol

Post of the year, Dave


But I shall never forgive his role as head plotter during the Roberto Wars

Crying here

 

[tim gabbott]

Rumoured to have leapfrogged the Galloot in the pecking order and about to become a key member of the Everton first team coaching staff. A successor to Benitez might be pushing it time-wise, but he's apparently done well as a youth development coach. I'm sure he'll be doing all his coaching badges in the next year or so if he hasn't already done them.

He's a much more credible blue to be making manager than Ferguson; Baines is serious and articulate, whereas Ferguson is all spluttering OTT passion and he lacks polish. Baines has demographics on his side too: he's a hero and role model to a younger generation of blues to the one who hero worshipped Ferguson. The new generations who probably make up the majority of Evertonians now in their 20s and 30s have dads who worshipped Ferguson; they respect his standing at the club but they dont identify with him as much as they would Baines.

A strange one from me given his record in undermining Roberto, but if I were a betting man - and notwithstanding that Usmanov/Moshiri tend to go for established industry names as managers - I wouldn't mind enquiring what odds I could get on Baines being manager well before the decade's out.

Bed

 

[sdk]

Sorry, I missed the bit where forum translated to “make stuff up and state it as fact”

I think that bit appeared in the New Manager thread.

 

[Kever10]

Juming up and down, shaking your fist get's old really fast. The only way to command players' continued respect is by being a good strategist.

You have unfairly assumed that Ferguson has no ability BECAUSE he has passion. And that Baines is a tactical genius because he doesn't.

Ferguson got his badges by completing the courses. He has the qualifications, and the club, as well as a succession of consecutive managers, have kept him around. Several individual players have cited his own imput in helping improve their game.

But you know better because of a lazy, unfair, prejudiced and in part racist stereotypical belief you have of him born out of the general mystique around his choice to avoid press and media until he came back as a coach. Many people outside of a few select people who bought the This is Everton videos back in the day, didn't even know what Duncan sounded like until his Newcastle press conference, and this is often held against him.

It took balls to come back and apologise to Moyes the way he did, and to accept any coaching position he could, unpaid to begin with, because he wanted to learn. He studied, gained his credentials and worked his way through the ranks.

Dismiss him all you like, if he had no upside, he would not still be here. Plenty of staff have come and gone during his time here. Same applies to Unsworth. And to a lesser extent, Brands.

The amount of actual knowledge, and not just assumption and guess work that goes in to the critiques of these people, with little or no evidence or information to back it up is frankly unfair.

But the 1 thing I know, and anyone who has ever met him will attest to this as well, is Duncan has an aura about him and his charisma has never been simply about jumping up and down and shaking his fists. He is well respected by almost anyone who has ever met him, and for a man of his stature, extremely humble and self depreciating at times too. He puts himself out for people time and time again, often with little fanfare, and he is a credit to the club.

 

[fandjango]

Or you could just respond to a very reasonable and plausible scenario.

Yeah I could and probably will but I was just
I was just having a tickle at your funny bone .first

 

[fandjango]

I understand that Leighton is a good and improving coach . And that is what is needed as a basic requirement for the top job at a club.
I also understand that he is a considered an articulate communicator, another major requirement . But besides that what does he bring ?
Well on the plus side he brings a clear and proven passion for our club which also is a massive plus .
on the negative side are his leadership skills which are to a large part unknown . It concerns me that he was never really the club captain which in all his years in the club he really would have become should a strong leadership ability be clearly apparent
He also occasmade statements and actions which MAY be regarded as political naivety and thus too needs to be improved upon.
At the highest level as well as the tactical nous the communication skills a manager needs the courage in decision making and strong man management and leadership skills and the ability to understand and interface with the politics of the football business to succeed.
to be an Everton manager is very much on the cards for Baines but not yet .
Not whilst those unknowns stay unknown
He. cannot develop those extra leadership AND political skills working as part of a back room staff. Yes he will see them at first hand but he will have to fly solo to develop and hone his own style .
The important point is this , and I say this as somebody who knows having been involved in the selection of army officers from university applicants for many years , not all intelligent articulate and skilled men or women take well to leadership at a high level
But with courage and commitment many can and do. I spent several years teaching leadership to young officers and it is clear to me that someone who wants to lead can learn to do it. You dint need to be born to it as some may have you believe.
Leighton needs a few years at Everton watching and learning how to lead the footballers and how to interface with the Business.
Then he needs to go out and do it on his own for at least 5 years before he can be considered
I love the guy and have always been a fan
Everton manager in 7 years after a successful spell away

 

[Eggs]

Even if you dislike Ferguson, you can't deny that he is a much bigger character than Baines. I couldn't imagine Baines inspiring anyone to do anything except be themselves.

…being a big character is nothing in comparison to respect. Kendall and Catterick were hardly big characters but were our most successful managers.

In all walks of life, people give most to the people they respect, not the ones with the biggest mouths.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Charisma? Just hard faced.

I wouldn't call Benitez charismatic. Hard faced seems a better description.

 

[Eggs]

I wouldn't call Benitez charismatic. Hard faced seems a better description.

….egotistical, single-minded & stubborn.

 

[davek]

You have unfairly assumed that Ferguson has no ability BECAUSE he has passion. And that Baines is a tactical genius because he doesn't.

Ferguson got his badges by completing the courses. He has the qualifications, and the club, as well as a succession of consecutive managers, have kept him around. Several individual players have cited his own imput in helping improve their game.

But you know better because of a lazy, unfair, prejudiced and in part racist stereotypical belief you have of him born out of the general mystique around his choice to avoid press and media until he came back as a coach. Many people outside of a few select people who bought the This is Everton videos back in the day, didn't even know what Duncan sounded like until his Newcastle press conference, and this is often held against him.

It took balls to come back and apologise to Moyes the way he did, and to accept any coaching position he could, unpaid to begin with, because he wanted to learn. He studied, gained his credentials and worked his way through the ranks.

Dismiss him all you like, if he had no upside, he would not still be here. Plenty of staff have come and gone during his time here. Same applies to Unsworth. And to a lesser extent, Brands.

The amount of actual knowledge, and not just assumption and guess work that goes in to the critiques of these people, with little or no evidence or information to back it up is frankly unfair.

But the 1 thing I know, and anyone who has ever met him will attest to this as well, is Duncan has an aura about him and his charisma has never been simply about jumping up and down and shaking his fists. He is well respected by almost anyone who has ever met him, and for a man of his stature, extremely humble and self depreciating at times too. He puts himself out for people time and time again, often with little fanfare, and he is a credit to the club.

"Racist"?

 

[blueblue]

You have unfairly assumed that Ferguson has no ability BECAUSE he has passion. And that Baines is a tactical genius because he doesn't.

Ferguson got his badges by completing the courses. He has the qualifications, and the club, as well as a succession of consecutive managers, have kept him around. Several individual players have cited his own imput in helping improve their game.

But you know better because of a lazy, unfair, prejudiced and in part racist stereotypical belief you have of him born out of the general mystique around his choice to avoid press and media until he came back as a coach. Many people outside of a few select people who bought the This is Everton videos back in the day, didn't even know what Duncan sounded like until his Newcastle press conference, and this is often held against him.

It took balls to come back and apologise to Moyes the way he did, and to accept any coaching position he could, unpaid to begin with, because he wanted to learn. He studied, gained his credentials and worked his way through the ranks.

Dismiss him all you like, if he had no upside, he would not still be here. Plenty of staff have come and gone during his time here. Same applies to Unsworth. And to a lesser extent, Brands.

The amount of actual knowledge, and not just assumption and guess work that goes in to the critiques of these people, with little or no evidence or information to back it up is frankly unfair.

But the 1 thing I know, and anyone who has ever met him will attest to this as well, is Duncan has an aura about him and his charisma has never been simply about jumping up and down and shaking his fists. He is well respected by almost anyone who has ever met him, and for a man of his stature, extremely humble and self depreciating at times too. He puts himself out for people time and time again, often with little fanfare, and he is a credit to the club.

Excellent post

 

[davek]

…being a big character is nothing in comparison to respect. Kendall and Catterick were hardly big characters but were our most successful managers.

In all walks of life, people give most to the people they respect, not the ones with the biggest mouths.

Exacly. There's two versions of character:

1/ the commony held view that it means someone larger than life who is either quick witted or else gains kudos from what some regard as daring or controversial past actions - which is a very insubstantial and boisterous version of what it means to have character

2/ character gained through experience (good and bad) which is channelled to overcome what life has to throw at us and to master a variety of situations - a version of character that exudes a commanding and assured presence

 

[davek]

I understand that Leighton is a good and improving coach . And that is what is needed as a basic requirement for the top job at a club.
I also understand that he is a considered an articulate communicator, another major requirement . But besides that what does he bring ?
Well on the plus side he brings a clear and proven passion for our club which also is a massive plus .
on the negative side are his leadership skills which are to a large part unknown . It concerns me that he was never really the club captain which in all his years in the club he really would have become should a strong leadership ability be clearly apparent
He also occasmade statements and actions which MAY be regarded as political naivety and thus too needs to be improved upon.
At the highest level as well as the tactical nous the communication skills a manager needs the courage in decision making and strong man management and leadership skills and the ability to understand and interface with the politics of the football business to succeed.
to be an Everton manager is very much on the cards for Baines but not yet .
Not whilst those unknowns stay unknown
He. cannot develop those extra leadership AND political skills working as part of a back room staff. Yes he will see them at first hand but he will have to fly solo to develop and hone his own style .
The important point is this , and I say this as somebody who knows having been involved in the selection of army officers from university applicants for many years , not all intelligent articulate and skilled men or women take well to leadership at a high level
But with courage and commitment many can and do. I spent several years teaching leadership to young officers and it is clear to me that someone who wants to lead can learn to do it. You dint need to be born to it as some may have you believe.
Leighton needs a few years at Everton watching and learning how to lead the footballers and how to interface with the Business.
Then he needs to go out and do it on his own for at least 5 years before he can be considered
I love the guy and have always been a fan
Everton manager in 7 years after a successful spell away

Well this was never a matter of saying Baines Everton manager after Benitez leaves. Of course experience as a first team coach then out into the world to take a managerial appointment are the obvious stages he'd need to go through. I disagree about needing to wait 7 years for it though. He could get a season or two in the company of Benitez then take up a job in a Champioship team and gain quick promotion. Look at what Gerrard has done, and also Lampard (who was unfortunate to lose his job - something I think an empty Stamford Bridge got him as much as anything else).

As for him not being made permanent captain: the captaincy was shuffled down to Kendall only after Labone hung up his boots and Ball was sold - I dont think he was commanding and we were poor in his spell. Joe Royle wasn't captain and he did ok with us. Ratcliffe was a good captain and a rubbish manager; Reid was never a permanent captain but did better than Ratcliffe. In short: it means nothing.

 

[fandjango]

Well this was never a matter of saying Baines Everton manager after Benitez leaves. Of course experience as a first team coach then out into the world to take a managerial appointment are the obvious stages he'd need to go through. I disagree about needing to wait 7 years for it though. He could get a season or two in the company of Benitez then take up a job in a Champioship team and gain quick promotion. Look at what Gerrard has done, and also Lampard (who was unfortunate to lose his job - something I think an empty Stamford Bridge got him as much as anything else).

As for him not being made permanent captain: the captaincy was shuffled down to Kendall only after Labone hung up his boots and Ball was sold - I dont think he was commanding and we were poor in his spell. Joe Royle wasn't captain and he did ok with us. Ratcliffe was a good captain and a rubbish manager; Reid was never a permanent captain but did better than Ratcliffe. In short: it means nothing.

I agree and he does need to have experience in leadership and the only way to get experience is to do it