Mandatory Covid Vaccines for Premier League players

[Barracuda123]

There are so many different things you can use in this example.

A person who doesn't drink alcohol, going out with their mates, isn't allowed out, because they don't drink too? A person can't play, if they're not vaccinated? Rubbish.

Ultimately a person has a right to do what they want to do, if Delph or any other football choose not to have a vaccine, then that's their decision. They've got enough doubts and concerns to not take it, like someone may have by not taking it.

It's nothing to do with being a Premier League footballer, it's their basic human right.

It's either legal to force employees to have a vaccine or not. If it isn't then telling people they can't play if they don't would be challenged in court.

I love the witch hunting of those people who don't want "this" vaccine for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Barracuda123]

And in some countries, people who have died from Covid have their cause of death listed as something else, or not at all.

who ? Where ? -- that is beyond a small number and although I agree is wrong, the cause of death should be accurately recorded it wouldn't make a difference to the weight of argument

 

[Yarrgh]

If the fans have to prove the double vaccine status before entering a football stadium why do the playing and non-playing staff get a bye?

If he can't play because of that, terminate his contract.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

There are so many different things you can use in this example.

A person who doesn't drink alcohol, going out with their mates, isn't allowed out, because they don't drink too? A person can't play, if they're not vaccinated? Rubbish.

Ultimately a person has a right to do what they want to do, if Delph or any other football choose not to have a vaccine, then that's their decision. They've got enough doubts and concerns to not take it, like someone may have by not taking it.

It's nothing to do with being a Premier League footballer, it's their basic human right.

They absolutely have the right to not take it. Just as others have the right to protect themselves, their other employees and their customers from the effects of that person’s illogical decision.

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

Can you prove the 4 milllion died from COVID ?? Definitely ... not from either exisitng conditions that were exasperated. Or, people died from the effects of shutting down society, eg ambulances not attending incidents of chest pain in usual time frame etc, cancer issues etc. (above yearly average) ?? If those people had a postitive covid test and died WITHIN 28 days FOR ANY REASON they are marked down as a 'covid death.' Statistaicallu low you say - it's very difficult to report vaccine deaths/issues as 'vaccine deaths', far more hoops to jump through than a 'covid death'.

You're misrepresenting comorbidities or exasperating factors as the only reason someone dies from COVID, though, aren't you? I've seen first-hand a colleague of mine die in the early months of COVID outbreak in New York, who was 36 years old with no comorbidities. We've seen many more reports in recent months with delta and gamma variant from medical health professionals saying younger and younger folks with severe (intubation-required) presentation. Doctors writing notes like "didn't get the vaccine because they thought they'd be fine??" or people asking for the vaccine right before they get put on a ventliator, not realising it's preventative not treatment.

Vaccination isn't just important for people who get, do not recover from, and eventually die from COVID. It is for the general populace and infrastructure in place due to the significant medical intervention needed to save a life for something that is entirely avoidable given good practice and, yes, vaccination. My mother had a stroke in January lockdown, and we waited 105 minutes for an ambulance, even though we recognized the early signs of a stroke, literally told them she was having a stroke, and called multiple times in tears before the lights went out of her eyes and they finally came. If she'd died, saying "she died of a stroke" or "well he died of cancer" or what have you may be true, but also contextually inaccurate given that the surge from a late post-Christmas lockdown had seen death rates quadruple in a month and prevented people from getting the medical care that was necessary.

The death rate is 2.2% in the UK. A "first-world" country, with a nationalised health system and a, frankly, surprisingly good vaccine rollout. In the US, over 99% of new cases are amongst the unvaccinated. Italy just reported that 99% of recent deaths are in the unvaccinated. Even if the UK death rate was half that, would you prefer to take a 1.1% chance of death over the vaccination complications? In the United States from Dec 14 2020-July 26, 2021, VAERS received 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine - note that is not vaccine-caused deaths, just deaths of people who had received the vaccine.

I'm not a praying man, but I do not wish COVID on anyone, directly or indirectly. Do what you feel is right, but ask yourself if you're evaluating the facts in front of you, or if you're going along with an anti-establishment, conspiracy-touting crowd just because it makes you feel a tad more empowered in what is, honestly, a very scary time.

 

[soothsayer]

A person who doesn't drink alcohol, going out with their mates, isn't allowed out, because they don't drink too? A person can't play, if they're not vaccinated? Rubbish.

Guess you never went into the Dispensary under the old landlord?

 

[Efcjake]

I have a feeling the reason Delph didn't travel was because he wasn't vaccinated.

 

[Efcjake]

It's only selfish people who don't want to get vaccinated and allow themselves to host the virus until another deadly mutation happens.

 

[Barracuda123]

You're misrepresenting comorbidities or exasperating factors as the only reason someone dies from COVID, though, aren't you? I've seen first-hand a colleague of mine die in the early months of COVID outbreak in New York, who was 36 years old with no comorbidities. We've seen many more reports in recent months with delta and gamma variant from medical health professionals saying younger and younger folks with severe (intubation-required) presentation. Doctors writing notes like "didn't get the vaccine because they thought they'd be fine??" or people asking for the vaccine right before they get put on a ventliator, not realising it's preventative not treatment.

Vaccination isn't just important for people who get, do not recover from, and eventually die from COVID. It is for the general populace and infrastructure in place due to the significant medical intervention needed to save a life for something that is entirely avoidable given good practice and, yes, vaccination. My mother had a stroke in January lockdown, and we waited 105 minutes for an ambulance, even though we recognized the early signs of a stroke, literally told them she was having a stroke, and called multiple times in tears before the lights went out of her eyes and they finally came. If she'd died, saying "she died of a stroke" or "well he died of cancer" or what have you may be true, but also contextually inaccurate given that the surge from a late post-Christmas lockdown had seen death rates quadruple in a month and prevented people from getting the medical care that was necessary.

The death rate is 2.2% in the UK. A "first-world" country, with a nationalised health system and a, frankly, surprisingly good vaccine rollout. In the US, over 99% of new cases are amongst the unvaccinated. Italy just reported that 99% of recent deaths are in the unvaccinated. Even if the UK death rate was half that, would you prefer to take a 1.1% chance of death over the vaccination complications? In the United States from Dec 14 2020-July 26, 2021, VAERS received 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine - note that is not vaccine-caused deaths, just deaths of people who had received the vaccine.

I'm not a praying man, but I do not wish COVID on anyone, directly or indirectly. Do what you feel is right, but ask yourself if you're evaluating the facts in front of you, or if you're going along with an anti-establishment, conspiracy-touting crowd just because it makes you feel a tad more empowered in what is, honestly, a very scary time.

I'm not confusing anything and sophistry won't alter the fact that way we record covid deaths is bogus. A factor exasperated by another factor is just that, exasperated that still did the killing. The rules were written to allow a narrative like this to flourish (even though the official reason for these reporting standards is to stop the government brushing a public health risk under the carpet by under reporting). I think many - including you - confuses dying "becasue" of covid, as opposed to dying "with" covid. Looking around I would say that confusion exists in 99% of the public. Mainly because any scrutiny of this narartive/figures is immediately condemned as fake news, anti-vaxxers etc. Yes ... I expect my stay on this forum to be short

 

[Lapeno77]

Perhaps an alternative way the PL may have gone is to follow the NFL example. Next season, any team unable to fulfil their fixtures due to Covid, forfeits the game and it counts as a loss.
In doing so, the teams have to figure out uf they want to run the risk of having unvaccinated staff in their midat and increasing the liklihood of an outbreak which leads to a points loss.

 

[NathDogg]

It's only selfish people who don't want to get vaccinated and allow themselves to host the virus until another deadly mutation happens.

People have a choice on being vaccinated or not, it doesn't make them selfish if they have concerns - it's their choice, just as it is mine to be vaccinated.

This vitriolic and derogatory language some are using doesn't help anyone.

Virusess will mutate in vaccinated individuals also, just at a lower rate, but a deadly mutation could still happen there.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Can you prove the 4 milllion died from COVID ?? Definitely ... not from either exisitng conditions that were exasperated. Or, people died from the effects of shutting down society, eg ambulances not attending incidents of chest pain in usual time frame etc, cancer issues etc. (above yearly average) ?? If those people had a postitive covid test and died WITHIN 28 days FOR ANY REASON they are marked down as a 'covid death.' Statistaicallu low you say - it's very difficult to report vaccine deaths/issues as 'vaccine deaths', far more hoops to jump through than a 'covid death'.

That is no longer true, at least here in the US, and hasn’t been for over a year. In order to be counted as a Covid death, the disease has to have played a role.

How are COVID-19 deaths counted? It’s complicated

As the U.S. death toll nears a half-million, confusion continues over whether people die “of” COVID-19 or “with” COVID-19. Here’s what’s behind the numbers.

www.aamc.org

 

[canuckblue]

Can you prove the 4 milllion died from COVID ?? Definitely ... not from either exisitng conditions that were exasperated. Or, people died from the effects of shutting down society, eg ambulances not attending incidents of chest pain in usual time frame etc, cancer issues etc. (above yearly average) ?? If those people had a postitive covid test and died WITHIN 28 days FOR ANY REASON they are marked down as a 'covid death.' Statistaicallu low you say - it's very difficult to report vaccine deaths/issues as 'vaccine deaths', far more hoops to jump through than a 'covid death'.

I think all of us are exasperated by the virus. I think you mean exacerbated.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Can you prove the 4 milllion died from COVID ??

Well in the UK last year there were just short of 100,000 deaths in excess of the previous 10yr average.

That's about a 20% increase on that average.

Even vs the 5yr average (which involves a couple of particularly bad flu seasons, and the combined effects of over a decade of worsening NHS underfunding) it was up by over 65,000.

Probably just a coincidence.

 

[Nymzee]

Seems in Germany they're exploring not lettin non-vaccinated players playing but aren't forcing anyone to get a vaccina (as it should be).