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2019/20 Marcel Brands

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Nymzee said:
I was more just pointing out how world renowned the two are.
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Yeah I know, just saying that just because he came before media saturation and computer games doesn't mean he's a nobody. More to the point, whether you're a world renowned former player or a bloke in the pub, your opinion of how good somebody is as a Director of Football probably carries about the same weight.
 
Lanolin said:
Yeah I know, just saying that just because he came before media saturation and computer games doesn't mean he's a nobody. More to the point, whether you're a world renowned former player or a bloke in the pub, your opinion of how good somebody is as a Director of Football probably carries about the same weight.
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I suspect those that have worked with him (RvN) should have their opinion felt with greater weight. By all accounts Brands got rid of Kieft at the PSV academy so you have to look at it through a tinge of bitterness & also, as pointed out earlier, the two "failed" transfers he tried to beat Brands with weren't exactly failed transfers.

Just enjoy watching Dave and his agenda have a go.
 
Nymzee said:
I suspect those that have worked with him (RvN) should have their opinion felt with greater weight. By all accounts Brands got rid of Kieft at the PSV academy so you have to look at it through a tinge of bitterness & also, as pointed out earlier, the two "failed" transfers he tried to beat Brands with weren't exactly failed transfers.

Just enjoy watching Dave and his agenda have a go.
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He's been here for 2 seasons and we've spent as much time in the bottom half of the table as the top half. We retain most of the costly dead wood; and he has added a lot of duff players this season.

Agenda? The facts speak for themselves.
 
Nymzee said:
I suspect those that have worked with him (RvN) should have their opinion felt with greater weight. By all accounts Brands got rid of Kieft at the PSV academy so you have to look at it through a tinge of bitterness & also, as pointed out earlier, the two "failed" transfers he tried to beat Brands with weren't exactly failed transfers.

Just enjoy watching Dave and his agenda have a go.
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Playing devil's advocate, you have to apply the same criteria to both sources. One likes him and said good things, one doesn't and said bad things. You can't discount the bad as unreliable because of a personal connection without doing the same for the good. Basically, neither of them should really be held up as a reliable source.

I don't think we're really in a position to judge whether they were failed transfers are we? It'd be a bit like a PSV fan coming on saying that Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Keane etc weren't failed transfers because they're still in the team. Without any idea what their performances were like I can say that a £7m signing leaving for free at the end of their contract (seemingly having not been offered a new one) would have to have some pretty extenuating circumstances to be seen as a success.
 
Lanolin said:
Playing devil's advocate, you have to apply the same criteria to both sources. One likes him and said good things, one doesn't and said bad things. You can't discount the bad as unreliable because of a personal connection without doing the same for the good. Basically, neither of them should really be held up as a reliable source.

I don't think we're really in a position to judge whether they were failed transfers are we? It'd be a bit like a PSV fan coming on saying that Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Keane etc weren't failed transfers because they're still in the team. Without any idea what their performances were like I can say that a £7m signing leaving for free at the end of their contract (seemingly having not been offered a new one) would have to have some pretty extenuating circumstances to be seen as a success.
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That's not really devil's advocate though, is it? I'm not saying ignore Kieft's quotes and take RvN as gospel I'm just laughing at Dave not considering RvN's comments but then showing Kieft's as if gospel.

Well both Maher and Ramsalaar made the national team at PSV and both played many games for the club. A failed transfer would be Sandro/Klaassen and as both cost nothing even for Dutch teams (7m and 4m) they don't fall under the same category of failed transfer as Sig (£45m) and Scheiderlin (£20m) which is a lot of money for Everton.
 

Nymzee said:
That's not really devil's advocate though, is it? I'm not saying ignore Kieft's quotes and take RvN as gospel I'm just laughing at Dave not considering RvN's comments but then showing Kieft's as if gospel.

Well both Maher and Ramsalaar made the national team at PSV and both played many games for the club. A failed transfer would be Sandro/Klaassen and as both cost nothing even for Dutch teams (7m and 4m) they don't fall under the same category of failed transfer as Sig (£45m) and Scheiderlin (£20m) which is a lot of money for Everton.
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Well yeah it's pretty much the definition of playing devil's advocate actually. I'm saying I don't necessarily agree with Dave, but what he's saying isn't necessarily without merit. It seems pretty obvious to me that he's not ignoring Van Nistelrooy's comments, merely pointing out that you could pick quotes which say the opposite if you want, and so it's not really evidence of anything. Regardless of personal opinion on the subject, he's right.

Adam Maher had 4 caps for Holland when he was signed by PSV. He now has 5. Saying 'he made the national team while he was there' is not really a great defence, particularly as the players I've already mentioned also got international caps while playing for us, but would still be widely regarded as poor signings. It's OK. it doesn't make him a bad DoF, but it's quite possible that he's made a couple of dud signings in his time, we don't need to defend him blindly.
 
davek said:
Maybe they should have interviewed Wim Kieft for the Sky Sports show:

“You don’t expect someone like Brands to blame others for failing players whose talent he misjudged. “He should have just said about Maher and Ramselaar: ‘Sorry, I was mistaken and it cost PSV too much money’. If, like PSV, you have a much larger money bag at your disposal than all other Eredivisie clubs apart from Ajax, then it is still easy to shop. Talent recognition is sometimes difficult, but not with PSV’s budget. Now, for the second year, Brands is with Everton, a major club from the Premier League. With a turnover of almost €215m, Everton is seventeen of the richest clubs in the world. Nevertheless, the presence of the Dutch technical director Brands is by no means a guarantee of success. Although he can buy almost any player that he wants and has attracted many players without producing results."
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Never change D
 

davek said:
He's been here for 2 seasons and we've spent as much time in the bottom half of the table as the top half. We retain most of the costly dead wood; and he has added a lot of duff players this season.

Agenda? The facts speak for themselves.
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79969
 
davek said:
Has he, yeah?

No wonder we win f.a..
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What did we win under DM, RM, RK,BFS, DS. Do you think we stand a better chance now?

Dave you have your own little agenda, all you do is knock down the likes of Brand, Moshi etc but never do you propose what would be the better path for the club to follow, wonder why? Becuase you have no idea isn't it?
 

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